To not be a guarantor for my sister

[PinkShimmerSparkle]

Even though this means they and their 3 children might become homeless.
My DSis and her DH are not fantastic with money, I always assumed that they made sure that bills, mortgage etc were paid and all their nights out and their regular purchases of new technology, holidays etc were bought from disposable income but in hindsight it is obvious that they were always spending beyond their means, this is none of my business and I absolutely would never get involved or say anything.
They have both been working until recently when her DH left his job, she tells me that they have missed one mortgage payment and have now been issued an eviction notice.
They are looking at renting but everything requires a guarantor and she has asked me and DH to be one, as she knows we both earn and can save every month, but this is only because we are careful with what we spend.
I have said no but feel bad that they might become homeless.
AIBU?

I understand not wanting to tell your parents. I would drop in the odd feeler, "have you spoke to X recently, how are they doing"

Maybe drop in a story your read in the paper about someone getting in a sticky position after being a guarantor depending on if this is the type of conversation you would have. I don't have a great relationship with my parents and there are a lot of topics that are completely off the table but I have used this trick before to bring in a tricky conversation - one example being lovely bombs and then my concerns about my sister's partner

We had all this with my dps dd

She's an evil witch,is only about herself and refuses to get a job as 'I don't want one,its your job to support me until i meet and marry a rich man'

Anyway she fucked off to uni (so it meant she didn't have to get a job for 3 years) and asked dp to be hers

I put my foot down and said 'nope-this isn't happening' so she went running to her granny (who is a soft touch and the nicest lady ever) and behind our backs

Granny said she would sign as it was for her beloved gd (sd laid on the guilt trip)

Sd defaulted,bailiffs showed up at mils,sd just shrugged and put the phone down and mil had to pull 5k out of her arse (this is just after we'd lost fil-married 50 years-so she was pretty vulnerable)

Never again-the stress was out of this world

I will never do it for anyone,not even my own kids

Also she would be better off selling. If she hands keys back to the bank they often sell for less than market value (ie through auctions) any shortfall will remain your sister's and bil's liability.

Don't do it. I work in debt advice and people get chased by when the original debtor stops paying, which they mostly do if they are not good with money in the first place. Do not risk it. Does she not have any equity in the house?

Tell her to get debt advice from step change or CAB. National debtline has free resources and factsheets.

She's lying to you.

One missed payment would NEVER trigger an eviction. Never. Not with any lender in the UK.

The bar for eviction proceedings is high. They will have missed months and months of payments, had warning after warning letter, been plagued with phone calls.

You would be utterly crazy to be a guarantor for them. Next time it goes tits up, the first you may know about it would be a demand letter claiming 6 month's missed rental payments. Then if you don't pay, a CCJ in your name.

No way would I do it sorry

If they really missed one specific payment with good history up to now, it would be nice to help them with that - but it wouldn't be needed, because in such case the bank would be happy to discuss options and there would be no talking about renting somewhere.

Imagine they missed half a year. Would paying one month do any good at all?

The first rule is no money/signatures while you don't understand the entire situation.

If you feel guilty, maybe you can set some money away as an emergency fund for the children? I am pretty sure that if something really worrying happens, you would know, and be able to intervene (pay a few days accommodation or something like that)

DH is in agreement with all of you. He says he had asked a friend of his who’s other half/sibling works as a mortgage advisor (I think). They said it is definitely a lot more than one missed payment and repossession is the absolute last resort for any lender.

We will not be giving them anything and he reminded me why we are very low contact with my family.

He is non confrontational but has now sent my sister a message, stating that we will not be helping them out and they need to seek help from all the agencies out there that are trained in this. He also said that we are only in a financially stable position now, after many years of sacrifice while our children were small. They have spent many years being frivolous with money and should have done something sooner to help themselves. We are not responsible for digging them out of the hole that they created and all future communication about this will be met with silence from us.

He has asked me not to respond to anything to do with this so that they get the message.

I am hoping that will be it now.

Agreed.

Don't pay the missed mortgage payment. As PP have said, you don't get evicted for missing one payment. Giving one payment will do no-one any favours.

If you're going to give one mortgage payment to anyone, give it to your sister, as they'll at least be able to use it, even though you should prepare yourself to see them misusing it. If you don't want them to misuse it, don't give it to them at all.

Also, I agree with not telling your parents. If you're low contact with them anyway, no-one will benefit from you having that conversation.

And definitely, DEFINITELY, do not agree to be a guarantor. I'm minded to say they haven't paid their mortgage for at least 6 months, maybe even 12. Imagine if they sign up for a year's rent and then pay none of it, continuing living the lifestyle they want, buying new tech, all while you're paying their rent for them. That will ruin your relationship far more than saying no now.

They're grown adults that have to admit their own failings and figure something out.

Your DH sounds ace!

DP agreed to be guarantor for their niece. DP is a mug at times. The reason niece's father wouldn't do it is because she already owed him money, and hadn't paid it back as agreed.
Not surprisingly, Niece went off the rails.
We were stung for a couple of thousand quid for the outstanding rent and cleaning/damage fees.
DP's niece is now permanently unwelcome in our house and, in effect, dead to me.
Don't do it. People who are hopeless with money stay hopeless with money. They'll just drag you down with them.

Cross post.

Well done OP - hopefully they'll back off, but I bet you anything you'll somehow become the evil sister that didn't help out.

You know you've done the right thing.

Well done @PinkShimmerSparkle

It's hard to say no to your sister. But she is lying to you, and as such you absolutey can't trust her.

Mortgage lenders have many steps in place to help people struggling to pay their mortgage. There's lots they can do to avoid losing their house- assuming they've not left it too late.

I'm glad your husband has your back.

Your DH really has your back, OP, he’s a good ‘un!

My dh was guarantor for a loan for his brother. Six years later we are still paying his debt. It's over £300 a month.
It ruined their relationship as they no longer have any contact. Caused upset to pil who were unbeknownst to us also giving him money.
Support your sis in other ways but not financially.

Your husband sounds great! The message he sent them was perfect.

Your DP sounds like a good egg!

It's not one missed payment and your BIL almost certainly got himself sacked.

I agree. Repossession (not eviction) doesn't happen after one missed payment. It's a long process and either your DS and BIL have missed many payments, or they've not stuck to a repayment plan.

And as for "BIL left after a disagreement" - well, "disagreement" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. I'd put good money on him being fired, possibly even for having his fingers in the till if he and his wife were in dire financial straits, which could explain why he's not getting another job in a similar area. If he's just stropped off out of his job while the mortgage arrears built up then that's almost as bad.

Either way, it's not your problem OP. Do NOT let them take you down with them.

This is definitely a Don’t -LTB situation! Well done Mr PinkShimmerSparkle!

To be a guarantor you will often need to have an annual income that’s at least three times the annual rental for the property. Plus you need to prove that you can cover your own mortgage and outgoings. Plus a higher rate charge is used for using a guarantor. If her rent is say £2kpcm you'd probably need an income of £72000 to be her guarantor, add on your own bills and you'd probably need an income of £100,000 to be her guarantor. It's not as easy as people think.

Well done OP's DH for backing you up like that - now you need to play your part OP and not respond to any more texts about money.

If you feel you want to help but not be trapped permanently as guarantor, there are other options.
If they are genuinely homeless then you could offer to pay for short term rental for 3 months (directly to the landlord).
Make it clear this is a one off during which time they sort out their financial mess.
But then they may be back to square one again but your conscience is clear .

Just say no.
My sister was the same we have very different attitudes towards money.

I knew someone who was a guarantor for a rental agreement. They knew what they were liable for but what shocked them was that arrears were being accrued for six months without them being told - the first time they knew something was wrong was a final (and first) demand for the money to be paid immediately or face court action. Yes they had to pay, but they were fucked off about how they were treated - they'd naievely assumed they'd be told as soon as there was a problem, not for it to be left for six months and then get a threatening letter. (That was what really pissed them off - the tone of the demand.)

Meant to say that I agree with everyone else.

Just tell her you can't afford it as you don't have enough income to carry you both. Good luck op.

Totally agree with everyone here saying don’t do it. Great that your DH has drawn a firm boundary.

She may go quiet but I suspect the emotional blackmail around her children will ramp up at some point. Including from your parents, as she sounds like the golden child.

It’s incredible to think that your Dsis and her DP would put their children through this. That’s where my focus would be if they end up in a B&B and you want to help in some way - clothes for the children or a supermarket shop, take the children out etc.