11 plus exam - Daughter’s friend admitted to cheating

[Covgirl1111]

Hi all,

Hope you can help with some opinions as this is swimming round in my head.
Sorry it’s long - I’ve tried to keep in all important details.

About half the kids in my daughter’s school year recently sat the 11plus exam at the big local private school. Out of about 170 kids who took the exam (in total from lots of local schools) 20 were invited back for a scholarship assessment day as they had done well in the exam.
My daughter (DD) was invited, as was her very good friend (VGF) and another boy in their class.
On the day of the assessment VGF was ill so couldn’t attend.
The assessment day consisted of a few different classes where the children were watched and their contribution was assessed. Then they all had individual interviews with the head mistress.
As VGF couldn’t attend the day she was offered the online assessment. She told my daughter what that consisted of which was some online tests, then a zoom interview with the head.
My daughter didn’t get the scholarship, nor did the other boy from their class.
However, VGF got offered an academic scholarship. My daughter was with her over the weekend and she told my daughter she had used her calculator and phone in the test - obviously completely not allowed but no one was monitoring her. She did the test in her bedroom and her mum was downstairs.
I don’t really know how to feel about this.
We’ve chosen another school - sort of off the back of her not getting the scholarship. The other boy who didn’t get it cannot now apply for a bursary which they need to attend the school as you ned to get a scholarship to qualify for a bursary.
I’m not saying my daughter or this other boy would have got it. VGF may have got it from the interview or god knows what else - who knows how they choose these things.
But I feel this is so unfair. For a start, they weren’t on level playing fields. Some kids may have fared far better sitting an online test than in a classroom environment.
I’m good friends with VGFs parents - they’re lovely.
My daughter is now trying to back track and say maybe VGF was joking about using her phone. I think she’s scared I’m going to say something.
There’s no doubt about it, to say something would cause a big fallout somewhere along the line.
And VGF would I’m sure deny it and how could anyone prove either way.

I just really wanted to offload and get some opinions.

Thanks for listening

That’s awful but there’s no way you could prove it so no point in saying anything.

If she’s managed to get the scholarship without being academically able enough, she’ll lose it, unfortunately.

Thats not your business, however, and you should definitely not get involved.

Yeah she hasn't really done herself any favours doing that as it will all come out in the wash when she doesn't perform how they expect her to when starting.

Stay out of it though, no good will come from it and you don't know the truth for certain. Just focus on your own dd.

I'd be bloody furious but I agree there is nothing you can do. I'm amazed there wasn't someone watching while she did the tests though, that seems an obvious thing to do when the results are so important.

Perhaps raise with her parents?

Well you can't prove she's done anything wrong
More fool the school.really for not having a stricter monitoring system in place

I agree with PP. Yes, it’s shit for the lad (and your DD) and/or anyone else who was edged out for the scholarship.

But you can’t know on what basis VGF succeeded and if she DID get it, but doesn’t deserve it academically, she’ll lose it pretty quickly when they see her work in class.

Im not going to say anything. It’s pointless and cannot be proven anyway and would create untold drama!

What annoys me is that it’s potentially been taken from someone else

There is nothing to gain by doing anything- they can simply say that she was supervised by a parent (weird system!) and in any event it's unlikely that your DD would get the scholarship even if her friend lost it.

It won't do the friend much good in the long run, I'm afraid.

Is it possible she feels awkward/embarrassed and is lying?

I think you need to just let it go really.

She will lose the scholarship if her scholarship test performance doesn’t match her ability in tests at school.

I agree with PP's about VGF coming unstuck if she has cheated her way in.
The school where I spent the last part of my career not only offered scholarships, but assigned a specific member of staff in the Senior School who, among other duties, mentored and monitored the progress of scholars (a good friend of mine whose timetable was divided between Junior and Senior parts of the school).
I think the school itself is setting up problems for itself by allowing such a lax system for assessment, but that is not your problem. If this is an example of how they run things, I suspect your feeling of someone else being edged out of an opportunity may be misplaced; they've edged into a mildly shambolic setup.
Our Junior school was also selective, although scholarships were not on offer until Year 7, and if a candidate could not come in on the same day as the others, they were brought in separately and assessed under test conditions.
Even so, we had the occasional "How the hell did he pass the entrance test?" character; it usually transpired that they had been coached to the eyeballs immediately beforehand, but could not sustain the pace.
In the long run, if they need that much pushing, or bending the rules, to get in, they might find the reality of being in that setting, and working at that pace, painful.

Yeah it's annoying but I don't think you can do anything, the school will soon realise if she's not up to speed academically so she hasn't done herself any favours really. I think you'll just come across as petty if you try and kick up a fuss, and ruin your daughter's friendship and your friendship with VGF's parents. Concentrate on your own daughter x

I think the way the kids were assessed in school
compared to the way she way assessed just seems so considerably different.
Apart from the fact she was able to use her phone due to no monitoring.

Is there a chance your daughter is back tracking because she actually lied to you about this to make herself feel better that VGF got the scholarship and she didn't? And she didn't expect you to consider taking it up with anyone? That would be the most likely thing that's happened.

Most online assessment systems have anti-cheating systems, especially when money is involved, such as key loggers or webcam use.

It's insane that the VGF was assessed on an unmonitored online test. All a kid would have to do would be to open up the laptop's calculator and Google in a another window on their laptop. They wouldn't even need a separate calculator or phone. The school is utterly ridiculous if they're awarding scholarships to kids who have sat an unsupervised test of any kind, let alone an online one.

I disagree with those saying she will quickly lose the scholarship. Presumably she performed well enough to be considered for it, as did the others, and there is probably very little between them academically. You have no way of knowing how much advantage, if any, she gained from cheating, if that’s what she did.
I think you shouldn’t interfere, it will look like sour grapes. Scholarships are not worth much financially.

The vgf could be lying, trying to pretend she isn't as bright and saying she had to use a calculator pretending that is the only reason she got it

Even if she did cheat the online exam, the school are not stupid, they will know there is a possibility of that and if it was that important to them they would have arranged some other monitored assessment at another time. I highly suspect it is based on her previous test scores and very much her interview. She hasn’t won a place at the expense of your daughter though so it’s irrelevant to you.

Leave it, who knows what happened. I once won a prize for an essay i wrote, a friend asked me if my dad told me what to write and i felt awkward and said yes (it wasnt true lol) - i really dont know why i said that as he never helped with homework and i was maybe a bit embarassed that he couldnt? Idk

The school is very silly if the tests are easy to cheat tho

I agree that it’s unlikely she’d lose the scholarship as she got to the assessment stage on her own merit so she’s a smart girl.
Scholarship is 6% or something so not huge.
However not getting it means the other boy in their class doesn’t qualify for a bursary.
But who knows if she’d have got it anyway - we’ll never know! 🤷🏼‍♀️

Yep agreed. It seems utterly bizarre.

If only 20 were chosen to be assessed then they must all have done well academically. Using phone etc would only have helped so much as it would affect speed of response. Chances are it was the interview which swung it but you will never really know. If she does not meet expectations she will be found out, if she does she deserved it on merit,

Keep out of it.

Naive q here (but coming from a former scholar at a public school!).

Do scholarships actually get removed?!? Who knew. Perhaps I had a lucky escape!!