11 plus exam - Daughter’s friend admitted to cheating

[Covgirl1111]

Hi all,

Hope you can help with some opinions as this is swimming round in my head.
Sorry it’s long - I’ve tried to keep in all important details.

About half the kids in my daughter’s school year recently sat the 11plus exam at the big local private school. Out of about 170 kids who took the exam (in total from lots of local schools) 20 were invited back for a scholarship assessment day as they had done well in the exam.
My daughter (DD) was invited, as was her very good friend (VGF) and another boy in their class.
On the day of the assessment VGF was ill so couldn’t attend.
The assessment day consisted of a few different classes where the children were watched and their contribution was assessed. Then they all had individual interviews with the head mistress.
As VGF couldn’t attend the day she was offered the online assessment. She told my daughter what that consisted of which was some online tests, then a zoom interview with the head.
My daughter didn’t get the scholarship, nor did the other boy from their class.
However, VGF got offered an academic scholarship. My daughter was with her over the weekend and she told my daughter she had used her calculator and phone in the test - obviously completely not allowed but no one was monitoring her. She did the test in her bedroom and her mum was downstairs.
I don’t really know how to feel about this.
We’ve chosen another school - sort of off the back of her not getting the scholarship. The other boy who didn’t get it cannot now apply for a bursary which they need to attend the school as you ned to get a scholarship to qualify for a bursary.
I’m not saying my daughter or this other boy would have got it. VGF may have got it from the interview or god knows what else - who knows how they choose these things.
But I feel this is so unfair. For a start, they weren’t on level playing fields. Some kids may have fared far better sitting an online test than in a classroom environment.
I’m good friends with VGFs parents - they’re lovely.
My daughter is now trying to back track and say maybe VGF was joking about using her phone. I think she’s scared I’m going to say something.
There’s no doubt about it, to say something would cause a big fallout somewhere along the line.
And VGF would I’m sure deny it and how could anyone prove either way.

I just really wanted to offload and get some opinions.

Thanks for listening

I'd speak to the head without giving your name or DDs and leave it with them.

Come at it from an angle of being concerned about a two tier assessment system and concerns that she wont keep up and someone else has potentially missed out.

Then come at it from the angle that it's been brought to your attention that someone cheated when doing the online assessment. Dont name names. If you're genuinely concerned about a student missing out in the future then you need to speak up, even if it doesnt help you or negatively affect her friend now.

And if you wanted to name them, what difference would it make anyway, you wont see them much once the kids start at different schools.

It doesn’t add up to me. They’ve already passed the academic test. They invite them in to see how they interact with others and check the personalities fit with the school. We’ve been through the scholarship process. I think there
were a few more tests but they weren’t the be all and end all.

I doubt she was offered the scholarships on purely these tests. They will have looked at other things.

And you can have scholarships taken away - we have to reapply every few years and it has been threatened to be removed before! However she’s clearly bright enough as she passed the test.

It’s just one of those things. Doesn’t sound like the school’s process was particularly fair or vigorous but there may have been other factors at play that you don’t know about.

How can there be no doubt?? You weren't there?
Or are you another mother who believes your darling could not possibly do anything wrong

mum of an academic scholar here, for 6% I would say it isn't worth the pressure they put on themselves to score very well every time they have a test in their weakest subject.

I wonder if your Daughter said this to you to make you/her feel better?

I'm sure that this little girl didnt cheat, she sounds like she is a very clever girl to get the opportunity in the first place and well done for her getting the place. Sour grapes perhaps!!???

If OP were going to complain to the school then I don't think complaining anonymously is appropriate.

How does OP know that this girl (if she did indeed cheat) "won't keep up"?

If I were the head and received an anonymous phone call about an applicant's alleged cheating, it would come across to me as jealousy and hoping that some kind of investigation would take place. There is no hard evidence that cheating did take place.

I think the OP needs to sit on this and just be content that her own daughter is happy with the second choice school.

There is no proof. But also no harm in advising the school that the online assessments lay themselves open to cheating and calculator usage. You don’t have to drop anyone in it.

I have moderated for these on Zoom, they're all recorded and monitored.

If she was using a calculator or her phone she would have been spotted.

Maybe she's embarrassed as she got a place and the others didn't. Kids are strange things.

Oof, this has obviously touched a nerve with you. Sorry for that.
Hope you’re ok ❤️ genuinely

Yep, definitely an unreliable system. They definitely need to address that

Yep very happy with the school my daughter preferred.
the other school we will be declining the place anyway but it’s gone down in my estimation after this.

If she did cheat that's horrible but it could be that she wanted to play it down as she might be worried about how people will react to her doing well or getting the scholarship.

Ha ha funny !

Normally - and particularly for scholarships - the workings out for the maths test must also be submitted. Any school worth its salt will have this covered, especially if they are allowing the test to be conducted unsupervised. Honestly I doubt it will have made any difference. They look at a whole range of things when assessing scholarship candidates including past assessments, reports, interview performances etc. I would let it be. You cannot prove anything, the school is not going to back track on its decision and you will just end up looking like a prime case of sour grapes.

This, if she got it fairly then she will do well. If she cheated then her time will come. Just leave it be, it will work itself out.

I’m curious about this now – how do you check for this? Does she have to sit somehow so her whole face, torso and hands are in view? I can never see anyone’s hands on zoom calls

I was also going to say - surely they could spot this on a Zoom call. The video will surely show the hands and exam paper? Not just her head. It would be obvious if she was tapping away on a phone or a calculator. Someone has got it wrong along the way.

You are going to look ridiculous or bitter if you do not have proof. You do not know what really went on and schools do not have to give you an explanation. If they are private is up to them who they offer to. They do not even give feedback of people who do not get a place. I would stay clear as your daughter would deal with the consequences. They are put under a lot of pressure with the 11 plus. May be she or her friend lied for obvious reasons.

On balance, I’d keep out of it.

Tell her parents what your daughter said and then leave it. Let the daughter know you know!

I’m sorry if this is triggering for you.
But please remember that all problems are relative.

triggering? Are you one of those that throw this out alongside the word ‘snowflake’ to deflect any actual form of debate?

I was just pointing out lots of things are unfair. You just feel a bit hurt because your daughter didn’t pass the test and her friend did. And that’s ok. We’re all different!

Your story changes slightly between your posts, you’ve asked for opinions but you’re very defensive about people suggesting perhaps this girl didn’t cheat, and either she or your dd are lying.

You also say in your opening post that you’ve gone with another school sort of in the back of your dd not getting the scholarship, but then you say the other school was the preference anyway.

I think there’s no point getting so caught up on it. You’re convinced she did cheat and won’t hear otherwise, but you also won’t do anything about it. DD is going to preferred school, so nothing lost there.

Not sure how you’re expecting people to respond or what you want them to say?

There is a lot expected of scholars for a fairly nominal amount (usually 10% of fees). Lots of involvement in academic events that they only think someone of a certain academic standard could handle. She’ll be outed fairly soon when she can’t keep up with the scholars events and the usual school stuff,