11 plus exam - Daughter’s friend admitted to cheating

[Covgirl1111]

Hi all,

Hope you can help with some opinions as this is swimming round in my head.
Sorry it’s long - I’ve tried to keep in all important details.

About half the kids in my daughter’s school year recently sat the 11plus exam at the big local private school. Out of about 170 kids who took the exam (in total from lots of local schools) 20 were invited back for a scholarship assessment day as they had done well in the exam.
My daughter (DD) was invited, as was her very good friend (VGF) and another boy in their class.
On the day of the assessment VGF was ill so couldn’t attend.
The assessment day consisted of a few different classes where the children were watched and their contribution was assessed. Then they all had individual interviews with the head mistress.
As VGF couldn’t attend the day she was offered the online assessment. She told my daughter what that consisted of which was some online tests, then a zoom interview with the head.
My daughter didn’t get the scholarship, nor did the other boy from their class.
However, VGF got offered an academic scholarship. My daughter was with her over the weekend and she told my daughter she had used her calculator and phone in the test - obviously completely not allowed but no one was monitoring her. She did the test in her bedroom and her mum was downstairs.
I don’t really know how to feel about this.
We’ve chosen another school - sort of off the back of her not getting the scholarship. The other boy who didn’t get it cannot now apply for a bursary which they need to attend the school as you ned to get a scholarship to qualify for a bursary.
I’m not saying my daughter or this other boy would have got it. VGF may have got it from the interview or god knows what else - who knows how they choose these things.
But I feel this is so unfair. For a start, they weren’t on level playing fields. Some kids may have fared far better sitting an online test than in a classroom environment.
I’m good friends with VGFs parents - they’re lovely.
My daughter is now trying to back track and say maybe VGF was joking about using her phone. I think she’s scared I’m going to say something.
There’s no doubt about it, to say something would cause a big fallout somewhere along the line.
And VGF would I’m sure deny it and how could anyone prove either way.

I just really wanted to offload and get some opinions.

Thanks for listening

Maybe if they don’t maintain a certain grade standard. Who knows?!?

There's no evidence and so many variables

Maybe the said it to make your daughter feel better

Maybe your daughter said it to make herself feel better

Maybe true, may be not but impossible to prove it

If it was an zoom, they woukd have picked up on it too

Do you believe your dd? Or is there a possibility as pp said, that she made it up to feel better about not getting the scholarship?

I agree that it’s unlikely she’d lose the scholarship as she got to the assessment stage on her own merit so she’s a smart girl.
Scholarship is 6% or something so not huge.
However not getting it means the other boy in their class doesn’t qualify for a bursary.
But who knows if she’d have got it anyway - we’ll never know! 🤷🏼‍♀️

Yep agreed. It seems utterly bizarre.

I’d be really surprised if there was no monitoring. My child took 11 + in covid, schools are well set up for these things now.

Ours were allowed calculators many years ago. I thought it odd but was told fairly standard.

I work in a private school and my role includes applying scholarships and bursaries to the bills. Yes, they are continuously reviewed and can be updated each year, although more usually at key stages, like when moving from prep to senior or senior to sixth.

She’ll go far…

If she’d got a bursary I’d be more bothered. Nothing you can or should do.

if she’d done dramatically better than expected I think they’d have dug in a bit since she took it at home, so she must be a smart cookie anyway.

You’ll never know if the boy would have got it anyway. Also you don’t know how much good the cheating actually did her.

To be fair if she didn’t get it, the other boy might not have gotten it either, it might have gone to someone else. She must have been smart to make the 20 anyway. Don’t do anything as really, there’s no way you can prove this and no point.
I also actually feel she might have said it to make your daughter feel better or as your daughter is now backtracking, maybe she said it to make herself feel better as well.

There is no way of knowing but I reckon she's either made this up to make your daughter feel better or your daughter has lied as she feels embarrassed about not receiving the scholarship. If the criteria is this strict, it is highly unlikely that they would be left unmonitored to the extent they could use their phones. Stay out of it.

Given your dd is backpedalling now, I think your daughter made it up out of sour grapes because her friend did better than her.

She’s not lying about what the friend said.
And she wasn’t worried about not getting the scholarship. She’s far more interested in the other school as it offers flexi boarding

As someone who has recently sat an online professional exam, I’d say there was a limit to how much she could actually cheat. Most are recorded nowadays.

using a calculator on an 11+ might help you do mental arithmetic, but you still have to know the method to calculate. I’m not sure having a calculator would be a massive advantage tbh. It might help you answer one or two more questions. But could also actually slow you down in other ways.

on average in terms of interaction online is much harder to engage naturally than real life. Therefore friend was probably at a disadvantage in terms of the interview (which was likely the deciding factor if all the kids were already demonstrably very bright before final test stage). Not that that excuses cheating but suggests VGF did very well to be offered the scholarship and unlikely boy or your daughter would have got it over her.

Also agree that VGF could have been fibbing out of a sense of embarrassment that she got in and your dd didn't- I always felt awkward when I got better marks than friends and could imagine saying something like this in a (stupid) attempt to make them feel better/play down my achievement.

Well done to your dd though sounds like she did incredibly well when you look at all the kids who applied and I hope she likes her new school.

It will probably become obvious if she starts to struggle. She's only cheated her self. As my mum used to say.

If your daughter is trying to backtrack you have to also consider the idea that she may have made up the phone use completely...

School can't be that great. Most have an in-person assessment for those who were ill on the first assessment day.

Backtrack is probably the wrong word. More like she was concerned I was going to get her friend in trouble. But there’s no doubt her friend told her what she had done

She might just be saying that to make your daughter feel better about not getting it? She might not even be telling the truth. And how could you ever prove it?

It’s definitely put me off that school.
I’m very much an everything happens for a reason type person.
It’s pushed us towards the other school which my daughter prefers

Independent schools run their own admissions and scholarship processes and you cannot appeal. So there is nothing you could do. It is not like our state schools where selective schools have to go on scores alone and make triple sure the papers are correctly marked, if not marked by computers.

I certainly wouldn't contact the school. You have no evidence.

I’m definitely not saying anything. For all the reasons.

It is unlikely that the mental arithmetic versus calculator element made much difference to her score. The online / offline element would be more significant, possibly counteracted by her being unwell. It isn't great, but I would leave this one well alone.