11 plus exam - Daughter’s friend admitted to cheating

[Covgirl1111]

Hi all,

Hope you can help with some opinions as this is swimming round in my head.
Sorry it’s long - I’ve tried to keep in all important details.

About half the kids in my daughter’s school year recently sat the 11plus exam at the big local private school. Out of about 170 kids who took the exam (in total from lots of local schools) 20 were invited back for a scholarship assessment day as they had done well in the exam.
My daughter (DD) was invited, as was her very good friend (VGF) and another boy in their class.
On the day of the assessment VGF was ill so couldn’t attend.
The assessment day consisted of a few different classes where the children were watched and their contribution was assessed. Then they all had individual interviews with the head mistress.
As VGF couldn’t attend the day she was offered the online assessment. She told my daughter what that consisted of which was some online tests, then a zoom interview with the head.
My daughter didn’t get the scholarship, nor did the other boy from their class.
However, VGF got offered an academic scholarship. My daughter was with her over the weekend and she told my daughter she had used her calculator and phone in the test - obviously completely not allowed but no one was monitoring her. She did the test in her bedroom and her mum was downstairs.
I don’t really know how to feel about this.
We’ve chosen another school - sort of off the back of her not getting the scholarship. The other boy who didn’t get it cannot now apply for a bursary which they need to attend the school as you ned to get a scholarship to qualify for a bursary.
I’m not saying my daughter or this other boy would have got it. VGF may have got it from the interview or god knows what else - who knows how they choose these things.
But I feel this is so unfair. For a start, they weren’t on level playing fields. Some kids may have fared far better sitting an online test than in a classroom environment.
I’m good friends with VGFs parents - they’re lovely.
My daughter is now trying to back track and say maybe VGF was joking about using her phone. I think she’s scared I’m going to say something.
There’s no doubt about it, to say something would cause a big fallout somewhere along the line.
And VGF would I’m sure deny it and how could anyone prove either way.

I just really wanted to offload and get some opinions.

Thanks for listening

I think anyone would be annoyed if they were in your situation. Mine didn't even do the 11+ but I can still see I'd be annoyed.

Just to offer another perspective - I scored very highly on a standardised test in school. I was embarrassed and told my friends that someone before me had circled the answers in the test booklet. No idea why, I was just embarrassed about being in the spotlight.

Anyway, I was made to take the test again, and got the same result.

It could be that VGF is warding off jealousy or wants to seem cool by cheating and breaking the rules.

Is it possible she feels awkward/embarrassed and is lying?

This is actually a real possibility. Lots of children claim that they didn't revise for their exams so as not to look like nerds.

But the main thing is that you will ruin your dd's friendship and lose her trust if you say anything and no good will come of it.

In these coming years you are going to need your dd to be able to trust in confide in you about all kinds of serious issues and you are going to have to turn a blind eye to some of them.

I'd have assumed your dd's friend was just clumsily trying to make her feel better about not being offered the scholarship herself 🤷🏻‍♀️

Just go to the school with your evidence, such as it is, and let them decide whether they want to withdraw the offer or investigate further. You'll need to stress that you no longer want to send your daughter there anyway so that they don't think it's a case of "sour grapes" of course.

It'll wreck the friendship but either she cheated or she's lying about having cheated. Either way she's dishonest.

Don't do this 😬

Difficult to get all the details and nuances across when I’m just typing out the basics but the way the girl was talking about it was like it was funny she managed to get one over on this school and couldn’t quite believe she’d got away with it. Nothing to do with making my daughter feel better - and as I said previously - my daughter is excited about the other school so not fussed about the scholarship at this school.

But she must have passed the initial exam anyway to get to the assessment day? So the academic side was already covered presumably? You didn’t mention that your daughter had to sit an exam at the assessment day?

Does seem unfair that she was offered a place on the basis of a zoom call from her own home – so much more pressure being in a foreign classroom interacting with a load of people you don’t know and being interviewed in a headteacher’s office!

That seems more unfair to me than the test.

I think the school should be aware, if only to do more to stop this happening again. It may not stop all forms of cheating, but close one loophole at a time I suggest.

Even if it cannot be proven 100%, the school should know about a potentially difficult pupil.

But you only have your daughter's account of how she was talking about it - which she later tried to backtrack from.

The school obviously has a dodgy loophole that can and was exploited by this kid. If I didn't know the answer and no-one would know I would probably have done the same TBH. It seems grossly unfair if she seemingly 'took' your daughter's place on false pretences. Could you maybe approach her parents, and tell them what you heard? They might force her to confess to the school, or they might back her and think you are an arse and jealous. It's a risk but I would do that rather than contacting the school as they mostly won't want to make themselves look bad as it's fully their fault. On the flip side, would you want your daughter to be in a school where (potentially) half the kids were not good enough, and were only there from cheating. It would drag her down and encourage her to do the same, so lucky escapes spring to mind.

If this is true, then the failure is the school’s.

Why would you have children sitting exams online with little to no supervision?If it wasn’t a calculator, it could be a parent helping. Absolute madness!

You have no evidence, your daughter is backtracking- not much you can do but vent.

Congratulations on your daughter getting into a school she likes 👍🏾.

This is the school's fault. They should have got her in to do the test under exam conditions when she was well enough. Loads of 11 year olds (who are arguably too young and not mature enough to be sitting formal exams) would be tempted to do this. Or an over zealous parent could do the exam for them.
And sadly, as others have said, she will have to live up to that scholarship. 11 is such a weird age to give them out. Take me as an example. I was just about average at 11. Good at English, terrible at maths, ok in everything else. But by 16 I was thriving and got 10 A*s at GCSE, 3 As at A level ad now have a first class degree and a masters. How you are at 11 means nothing!

No they didn’t have to sit any tests at the assessment day. All they did was participate in classes.
That’s what seems so odd - the disparity between that and sitting an online test in your bedroom.
Some kids don’t like putting their hand up or speaking out loud and would fare far better on an online test.

i said in an earlier comment backtrack was the wrong word. She’s just concerned I’m going to say something and get her friend in trouble

If your daughter is happy with the second choice school and you are not intending to say anything directly to the friend's parents, I would not do anything. You can't prove what was said by this girl to your daughter - what would you be hoping to achieve?

She could well be joking to be fair.

Thank you.

It’s made me look at that school so differently now. Glad this has happened in a way.
Just annoyed for the boy who relies on a bursary.
Again to say not that he would necessarily have got the scholarship but at least let it be fair!

Yes it’s unfair. But it’s also unfair that some kids get to go to private school because they can afford it. And it’s unfair that some kids get scholarships because their brains work a bit better.

You chose to enter into a situation which gave your kids an unfair advantage over other kids and now you’ve been beaten. Deal with it!

I doubt she's joking. If she hadn't cheated to get the scholarship, I doubt she'd want people to think she had.

So what is the point of your thread then?

What annoys me is that it’s potentially been taken from someone else - yet you dont care enough to do anything about it

If the school are so lax as to not have a camera on while the child is going the test, then it stands to reason that the test can't be that important in the decision-making process.

You say there were 20 invited back for the scholarship day assessment, based on previous performance in the 11-plus exam?

It sounds like the activities during this day would have just been to see how they engage in a class setting - are they broadly 'teachable.' If the children were not given more written texts, then how in earth can this VGF online test be assessed? Nobody else took it! It can't be important and they must know children could have parents doing it, or calculators out or anything. So they must have factored this in.

It sounds to me that the interview was the deciding factor and the rest (either on the assessment day or online in the case of the VGF) was just a formality. The VGF may have been one if the very top scorers in the actual 11 plus and her interview went very well?

Im assuming there were other parts to this test?

I mean what percentage of it was maths? And you can’t calculate every math question on a calculator?

You have no idea of the online exams conditions they have in place so how can you say she wasn’t monitored electronically somehow?

Id be surprised if the child’s math score alone swung it?

I think the girl is more desirable than the other two children hence her being offered a place

Mainly to offload. Don’t really have anyone I can chat to about this.
It annoys me that it’s been potentially taken from someone else but I can’t prove anything. She would deny it, it would cause untold drama and upset and for what? Without proof nothing will happen.

I’m sorry if this is triggering for you.
But please remember that all problems are relative.
And you have no idea of my situation so please don’t assume anything! ❤️