To not vote Labour because of their abhorrent views on the female sex?

[Lion400]

Starmer cannot represent women, he can’t even define us. Questioning a trans person is a hate crime, but misogyny is not. Sorry Labour, you’ve lost my vote. Have they lost anyone else’s??

‘On trans ideology, the vast majority of voters, and certainly a majority of traditional Labour voters from working class backgrounds, tend to cast a sceptical eye on the tenets of an ideological movement that asserts that biological men must be accepted as women – and be offered similar rights and access to women’s spaces and sports as women – simply by asserting their new status’

Maybe calm the insults down

@lifeturnsonadime has been clear and not rambling at all

Which part can't you understand?

I think it's pretty clear.

I think she meant transman in the third para which reads transwoman.

It’s an interesting point isn’t it?

Thank you, I did.

Unfortunately I'm past the 5 minute cut off to edit.

Ah the trans man strawman!

Was wondering when this one would be raised.

Women who reject womanhood are not a good reason for opening up single sex spaces to males. A trans man being female is obviously entitled to use women's single sex spaces. Whether they want to is another matter.

If people think they might be men because they identify as l men I can't see how they can be upset by that really.

Hopefully that now makes sense.

-He will simplify the GRA so it's less bureaucratic. That will be less resource intensive to administer so it will cost less to the public purse (good thing) and require less time input from health professionals (good thing) while still maintaining a medical diagnosis of dysphoria and therefore appropriate safeguarding (good thing).
These "good things" are on top of it being a more pleasant experience to go through for the trans person.

If you want to demonstrate their simplified process will increase harm to women you need evidence. Noone has presented any other than "it will be easier so more people will do it" which is faulty logic. There is no reason to think the GRC process has a significant influence on how many people transition.

The Conservatives also propose to make it quicker and "kinder".

He said he would reduce waiting times for LGBT people but did not say "so peoples bodies align more with their gender feelings". That bit is made up. If people need medical treatment, it's good if they can access it in a timely way.

No party is proposing excluding all males from single sex spaces. All parties are proposing keeping the GRA. So the debate about "Labour are a threat" is nonsense.

JFC that'll teach me not to RTFT

What, the one that got absolutely pasted on FWR the other day? actions speak louder than words when it comes to showing support

Quite
"Oh no, everyone can see the cold-hearted way this issue is being exploited by Sunak, quick, delete the thread!!"

I wonder what rabbit is coming out of the hat later to distract everyone? I despair

Not that I'm aware of but I don't know what you mean about actions speak louder than words. She's the multiply victimised woman denied any rape crisis support due to a refusal to offer true single sex services. It's vile.

Or maybe it'll be interesting to lurkers to reflect on the real distress Sunaks "at least we know what a woman is" approach causes, when they see him deploy it in front of a grieving mother.

The complete lack of empathy being deployed speaks volumes

I think the really big issue here is that there is genuinely nobody to vote for who gives a crap about women's rights. I will vote for Labour because there is no party who represents my views on this issue, but they are the only party with potential to remove the Tories from their 14-year reign of terror.

I'd go and have a read of some recent FWR threads if I was you and then have a think about what being an ally to "iamsarah" might actually mean. Beyond just throwing her name around to win an argument.

@AdamRyan do you believe that trans women are women?

I'm interested in why the OP has asked MNHQ to pull the thread.

While still maintaining a medical diagnosis of dysphoria and therefore appropriate safeguarding (good thing).

Let's break this down.

NHS on gender dysphoria - https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

Gender dysphoria describes pretty much any one who identifies as trans -

Gender dysphoria is a term that describes a sense of unease that a person may have because of a mismatch between their biological sex and their gender identity.

and later in the article

Many people with gender dysphoria have a strong, lasting desire to live a life that "matches" or expresses their gender identity. They do this by changing the way they look and behave.
Some people with gender dysphoria, but not all, may want to use hormones and sometimes surgery to express their gender identity.
Gender dysphoria is not a mental illness, but some people may develop mental health problems because of gender dysphoria.

So whilst Adam claims this is adequate to safeguard (presumably women) I think it covers pretty much anyone who is gender non conforming.

As I said upthread - de facto Self ID with the added bonus of falsifying documents for good measure.

Has the OP asked to pull this thread?
the lack of debate caused by two posters is annoying but also rather illuminating

Yes, they have.

There appears to have been a shift in something. All of a sudden its OK to use female pronouns for an AGP male teacher in the RW press. And women who object are being called Ultras, Purists, Pathetic, Abusive, Zealots and Phobic. Clearly the time has come for GC feminists to get back in their box, they're of no use anymore.

I wonder what's coming next.🤔

No. I believe trans women are males, but the trans identity is something they should be proud of. I'm happy to use preferred pronouns etc. I think the current legal situation is fine, as long as employers and service providers use the single sex exemption in the EA effectively.

I'm vehemently self ID because I think its a charter for abusive men.

I think I'm pretty much in line with the majority view. And I've fully thought it through so theres really no point firing questions at me. Just respect my opinion please.

See the way I see it is that the GC ultras have gone too far when they attack a respected GC journalist for making her own choice to use pronouns.
I'm willing to bet Janice Turner has done more for women's rights than anyone posting on this thread. Yet some GC people are throwing her to the wolves for "wrongthink". That's not any feminism I recognise.

I didn’t realise Janice Turner had been thrown under the bus. When did that happen?

'Plus it's revealed the Labour Party as authoritarian, in thrall to pseudo-science, and sloppy and careless about legislation. That goes well beyond this particular issue, if they are proposing sloppy, virtue signalling legislation on this issue they will do it for other things, like the environment, justice, etc.'
And frankly, these days I don't trust the fuckers as far as I could spit.

What did she do?

No party is proposing excluding all males from single sex spaces. All parties are proposing keeping the GRA. So the debate about "Labour are a threat" is nonsense.

Kemi Badenoch on amending the Equality Act -

Badenoch asked the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) to advise on the change, it emerged on Tuesday. The equalities watchdog said the new definition would make it possible to exclude trans people from same-sex spaces even if they hold a gender recognition certificate (GRC).
The recommendation was welcomed by the gender-critical campaign group Sex Matters, but prompted anger from the LGBTQ+ group Stonewall, which said it “risks opening yet another chapter in a manufactured culture war that will see little benefit to women, cis and trans alike”.

This has been followed by a speech to parliament in December 2023.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/apr/04/kemi-badenoch-could-rewrite-law-to-allow-trans-exclusion-from-single-sex-spaces#:~:text=The%20change%20by%20the%20equalities,change%2C%20it%20emerged%20on%20Tuesday.

The weekend when she wrote an article about trans teacher Debbie Hayton and didn't call Debbie he/him. Even though Debbie said they were fine with he/him pronouns and JT chose to use she/her.

She did it because she's a lefty who just wants to encourage people to vote Labour apparently. As opposed to, you know, a professional woman doing her job.

She got a pasting on twitter and came out fighting with the "GC Ultra" term. I'm 100% supportive of her, she's a total shero