To answer my friend honestly about her partner

[Whatdoyouthink65]

Context: My best friend from school and I have fairly infrequent contact now, but are both still available when one or other needs something ( like an opinion or a venting row about something). We don’t see each other much for geographical, familial commitment and conflicting work schedules. My friend has one child from a previous relationship which ended with acrimonious divorce and complex nasty custody battle.
When she met that person I did not like him, told her so nicely ( when she asked for my honest opinion- not unsolicited) and it changed our relationship for a long time. When she got divorced she actually confessed that my concerns about him had been entirely valid and she wished she had listened. I never hold this against her because we’ve all been guilty of being ‘rose tinted’ about partners at some point. After the divorce our relationship returned to how its was pre mariage.

She has a new partner of approximately one year. They appear very happy together and have moved in together- she plans to have another child ( his first bio) soon. He has fully accepted her daughter and has stepped into the ‘ dad’ role fully.

We arranged for us to all meet up recently and she wanted my honest opinion about him. I’m really torn about being honest with her again and potentially ruining our relationship or not acting on my gut and telling her a blasé “ yea he’s nice” answer.

I don’t have issues with everyone at all; in fact I can think of very few other people I don’t like. On the surface there is nothing to dislike about him. He’s polite and as above seemingly makes her feel good/ happy. I just didn’t warm to him initially and always trust my gut , but gave him benefit of doubt ( maybes he’s nervous etc).

However, my toddler took herself to the toilet in our house, then shouted for me when she needed her bum wiping ( as is normal for ourhouse) he got up at the same time as me and I assumed he was going to check on his step daughter who was playing alone in our house at that point. He wasn’t; he opened the toilet door and went to wipe my toddlers bum. Thankfully I was only a step behind him, slid myself between him and her and closed the door, saying that I would do it. My toddler looked terrified at someone she just met an hour earlier being in the bathroom with her ( she’s fairly shy and had barely spoken to him).
it made me REALLY uncomfortable, but I tried to think maybe he was just trying to be helpful although it couldn’t shake being uncomfortable.

later the same day me, my partner, my friend and the new boyfriend went for dinner with their 1 child, our toddler and our 8m old. During dinner our toddler asked her dad to pass some crayons, and the boyfriend seemingly misheard and said “ oh you need the toilet , I’ll take you, come on”. Before I even had chance to interject my partner had immediately said no and passed her the crayons she had actually asked for.

the boyfriend also undermined us several times ( for health reasons we don’t allow our toddler commercial desserts because we can’t measure the sugar in them) their daughter was having a dessert and we had said our toddler could have fruit ( she’s normally very happy with this), she had a bit of envy and asked why she couldn’t have chocolate brownies too and I explained it, she accepted it and then immediately after, the boyfriend said “ don’t listen to mummy uncle will buy you a brownie”. Again we stopped this, but there was a few incidents throughout the day of this nature.

I have real concerns as to his safety around small girls although I have nothing more than my opinion/ feelings to present to my friend.

my friend has text asking “ what do you think?”
would it be unreasonable based on the described incident above to answer her honestly saying that I have some concerns or should I give a safe answer of “ yeah he seems nice”.

I'm glad you're going to say something.
It's important to go with your instincts, and your DH had the same instinct as you.
It may well destroy the friendship, but that will be on her not you, and hopefully, at least some of your conversation will at least have her looking harder at him.

The best case scenario is that he's helpful but doesnt understand boundaries. The worst case scenario is...Well the worst case scenario. Bur are either of these great?

I'd meet your friend and stick to the facts. How he repeatedly crossed boundaries. Don't accused him of anything. Of she defends him. You can say that it might be true but she asked for honest opinion. The "he seemed nice" is meant for guys that are a bit meh hut nothing really wrong with them.

I have never ever come across a man who would offer to take another person's child to the toilet

Neither have I, at least not in a social setting - not even if asked

And I can totally seee why, when even perfectly innocent things can be misconstrued, so for this guy to actively push to take them seems deeply odd

You’ve got to say something. I know PP have said the Brownie thing doesn’t bother them, but I disagree. By undermining you, and playing good cop, points to grooming to me. The next thing will be ‘here, have this brownie, and don’t tell mummy, it will be our little secret’. Scary stuff.

He could just be an idiot who thinks he is being helpful and has zero boundaries, and maybe your friend told him to make an effort with your kid and make a good impression etc. But really… a man just pushing in like that and opening the door to a toddler on the toilet, a toddler he doesn’t know, to wipe her? No. That’s a huge level of naivety which I don’t believe anyone has so he is a creepy weirdo who may have nefarious intent and I’m glad you’re going to tell your friend.

I think when posters were more forgiving of the brownie comment it was because it was unclear about the sugar and diet at first. I took it as being from a healthy diet point of view rather than because of medical necessity.

Either way it’s not for a stranger to over rule, or anyone really, but this wasn’t a one off naughty treat, as we later learned.

And if your friend doesn't take you seriously, I would contact child protection services about this. It really is very alarming.

“However I’m not sure how I could live with myself if in 10 years it turned out he had been inappropriate with her daughter and I’d ignored my concerns to keep the ‘peace’.

I think you need to stop using language like that and use language like “sexually assaulted”.

Your friend does not sound like she is going to keep her daughter safe.

I would tell her outright that you found that behave worrying. I know you’ve said you’ll speak to her - I’m posting because I think it’s worth saying, don’t soften the blow. Use the right language. Or you set her up to deny it. Be upfront - it is not normal or acceptance for a grown man to go into the bathroom after a toddler. And contact the NSPCC for advice.

We have been through this in our family. If you think you’re OTT, starting googling the % of crime types in the UK, and see just how common sexual assault is.

This is concerning... What if he got into a relationship with your friend BECAUSE she has a small daughter? You need to tell her your concerns and advice her to be vigilant with her little girl...

Nooooooo

Not even once - twice he tried to be in the loo with your child

Hell would freeze over first

This is not even borderline - I would sit her down face to face and tell her why you felt I comfortable and let her draw her on conclusions / easier then telling her you don’t like him

Just as an update to everyone. Thank you all for confirming my own thoughts and solidifying them for me.
Unfortunately seeing her in person is not a viable option, and especially without small children around. Even with kids it would likely be months and months before we saw her. So I have video called her.

i started with,
“ I know you’re not going to like what I have to say, but I have always been honest before so I’m going to be honest now.
my feelings about him are irrelevant, but his behaviours towards my DD made us all very uncomfortable. As a grown man, he should know that it’s wholly inappropriate in any circumstance short of me being dead in the living room for him to approach her on the toilet. For him to try again to take her to the toilet whilst both of her parents were there is beyond comprehension of any reasonable person.
His repeated undermining of us as parents and over familiarity with DD was a huge concern for us and I’m very concerned about your relationship with him.

i know you’re clearly very damaged by your dickhead ex husband and perhaps feel like he is helping you heal emotionally but his constant attentiveness to your every whim could be seen as a grooming tactic to get to your DD. I know you have told me he takes her to dance lessons and picks her up from nursery 1 day a week for you. I think you need to seriously and objectively review this because we felt so uncomfortable with his behaviour that we won’t be allowing him near either of our children again. I’m not asking you to chose between us, but in the interest of honesty we won’t be attending any parties etc where he will be present if the children are invited. I understand it will affect our friendship, but I feel morally compelled to be honest for you DD sake.

she took it as expected, defending and explaining everything away.

I told her there is nothing she could say or do that would make me change my mind about our children and that I would absolutely be there for her no matter what she choses ( because at least that way I can monitor from afar).

i have also contacted her mother who is involved in their life on a day to day basis ( whom i am still in Christmas card level contact with) and raised my concerns. She said she couldn’t put her finger on what was amiss but didn’t like him either.

my friend is currently not speaking to me and says I’ve put her in an impossible position but at least I have done all I can for now.

She needs time to process it. It’s a huge accusation. Well done!

This is spot on the right way to approach the situation, and speaking to her mother about it was a great idea. Well done for doing the right thing OP :)

You have done the right thing OP. I wish there were more like you.

@Testina I used that language not to minimize the possibility of sexual assault or rape. Just to include as many things as possible including just demonstrating unhealthy personal boundaries, personal autonomy all the way through the spectrum to sexual assault and rape.

sorry if that wasn’t clear, but there’s certainly no intentional attempy at minimising.

I’m a single mum and right from the moment of becoming a single mum, I was hyper aware of men coming after me because I had very little children. Any men too excited by the idea, too inquisitive, too into playing dad were chucked right out of my life. I’ve been a single mum for 10 years, I didn’t date at all for 6 years (kids and a business) but the last few years I have dated and my kids haven’t met any of them. Even the one who lasted 8 months! It just isn’t happening. I’m not putting my kids through having men around when I’ve only known them a few months.

Im sorry to say it but your friend is an idiot. Having this man around her child so soon is just stupid but being completely unaware of the predatory men who absolutely look for women with little children just makes her an imbecile. And after this man’s behaviour… I would consider reporting it to social services just in case there is something in his past which links to this and allows them to act.

I can’t believe what I’ve read. The amount of people who put their own happiness ahead of their children’s safety astounds me. If he’s acted like that in front of you, there is little doubt your friend is ignoring a multitude of other red flags. Trust your gut! That man is not safe around children. I hope it’s not the case but how quick he has moved into a grooming role with your child makes me suspect that he’s already been inappropriate with your friend’s daughter.

Let’s face it, wiping your own kid’s bum is not the best task. Why on earth would you want to wipe another child’s bum, let alone one you’ve just met. The desert conversation is textbook grooming behaviour. Calling himself ‘uncle’, putting you in the role of unreasonable bad guy. It’s very typical and the fact he was so brazen about it is not a good sign in regards to your friend’s daughter’s safety.

If I was in your position I would, like others have suggested, meet in person to have the conversation. Keep in mind that people like her new partner are very clever, so he may turn her against you. But, as you’ve said, if the little girl who he has free access to goes on to suffer potentially many years of abuse, you will feel awful. Your friend has asked you, so it’s not even unsolicited.

Really odd behaviour. I wouldn’t dream of cleaning another persons child while they were present themselves? I’ve had to during play dates when I’ve been asked by child, but never ever if parents are there. And yes that “uncle” thing, on a first meeting. Very creepy. If this was a good friend who hadn’t asked for an opinion wouldn’t you still be considering letting them know your feelings?! I wouldn’t let my kids anywhere near the person you have described.

Not sure how she can say YOU'VE put her in an impossible position... if someone told me my new beau made inappropriate approaches to their 4 yr old girl I'd be seriously questioning my own lack of awareness especially if I had a child in his vicinity. Hopefully she will remove the rose tinted glasses and see what you've pointed out

I've shown this thread to my DH. He said that it wouldn't even cross his mind to provide intimate care to a toddler when her mother was there and said no decent man would. This is a HUGE red flag OP and you need to speak to your friend about this. I would even go as far as to mention my concerns to SS and the police; this is a child safeguarding issue.

I am seriously so impressed with how you handled it, and what you said to her and her mum.

She has done and has just updated.

My friend is currently not speaking to me and says I’ve put her in an impossible position but at least I have done all I can for now

Sadly I expected that, but well done for doing the right thing, OP - also for passing on your concerns to her mum who (presumably?) sees her more often and can hopefully keep a closer eye on things

I wouldn't normally advocate for what could be considered interference, but where a child's safety's concerned I draw the line (and sorry, but your friend's determination to sweep this under the carpet is very worrying)

Well done @Whatdoyouthink65 you've done the right thing. She obviously has feelings for the man and doesn't want to hear that she's potentially endangered her child. Hopefully, she'll now reflect on what you've said and will either come to the same conclusion as you or will at least now be watching out for it.