To answer my friend honestly about her partner

[Whatdoyouthink65]

Context: My best friend from school and I have fairly infrequent contact now, but are both still available when one or other needs something ( like an opinion or a venting row about something). We don’t see each other much for geographical, familial commitment and conflicting work schedules. My friend has one child from a previous relationship which ended with acrimonious divorce and complex nasty custody battle.
When she met that person I did not like him, told her so nicely ( when she asked for my honest opinion- not unsolicited) and it changed our relationship for a long time. When she got divorced she actually confessed that my concerns about him had been entirely valid and she wished she had listened. I never hold this against her because we’ve all been guilty of being ‘rose tinted’ about partners at some point. After the divorce our relationship returned to how its was pre mariage.

She has a new partner of approximately one year. They appear very happy together and have moved in together- she plans to have another child ( his first bio) soon. He has fully accepted her daughter and has stepped into the ‘ dad’ role fully.

We arranged for us to all meet up recently and she wanted my honest opinion about him. I’m really torn about being honest with her again and potentially ruining our relationship or not acting on my gut and telling her a blasé “ yea he’s nice” answer.

I don’t have issues with everyone at all; in fact I can think of very few other people I don’t like. On the surface there is nothing to dislike about him. He’s polite and as above seemingly makes her feel good/ happy. I just didn’t warm to him initially and always trust my gut , but gave him benefit of doubt ( maybes he’s nervous etc).

However, my toddler took herself to the toilet in our house, then shouted for me when she needed her bum wiping ( as is normal for ourhouse) he got up at the same time as me and I assumed he was going to check on his step daughter who was playing alone in our house at that point. He wasn’t; he opened the toilet door and went to wipe my toddlers bum. Thankfully I was only a step behind him, slid myself between him and her and closed the door, saying that I would do it. My toddler looked terrified at someone she just met an hour earlier being in the bathroom with her ( she’s fairly shy and had barely spoken to him).
it made me REALLY uncomfortable, but I tried to think maybe he was just trying to be helpful although it couldn’t shake being uncomfortable.

later the same day me, my partner, my friend and the new boyfriend went for dinner with their 1 child, our toddler and our 8m old. During dinner our toddler asked her dad to pass some crayons, and the boyfriend seemingly misheard and said “ oh you need the toilet , I’ll take you, come on”. Before I even had chance to interject my partner had immediately said no and passed her the crayons she had actually asked for.

the boyfriend also undermined us several times ( for health reasons we don’t allow our toddler commercial desserts because we can’t measure the sugar in them) their daughter was having a dessert and we had said our toddler could have fruit ( she’s normally very happy with this), she had a bit of envy and asked why she couldn’t have chocolate brownies too and I explained it, she accepted it and then immediately after, the boyfriend said “ don’t listen to mummy uncle will buy you a brownie”. Again we stopped this, but there was a few incidents throughout the day of this nature.

I have real concerns as to his safety around small girls although I have nothing more than my opinion/ feelings to present to my friend.

my friend has text asking “ what do you think?”
would it be unreasonable based on the described incident above to answer her honestly saying that I have some concerns or should I give a safe answer of “ yeah he seems nice”.

Agree with all of this. Really glad you're thinking this through OP.

Good for your DH. Take a leaf out of his book. This is no time for tact. You don’t need to use that kind of word, but you KNOW this man’s behaviour is not ok and your friend needs to be shaken awake. You don’t need to make accusations, just point out the very obvious inappropriate behaviour, which everyone who knows anything at all about child safeguarding can see very clearly. And he tried it twice! Your DH probably showed this man by his tone of voice and body language that he was on the alert. Being polite is not the right course of action in these circumstances.

The undermining of parents’ instructions is a clear red flag too. As is calling himself Uncle.

I say this every time there’s one of these threads, but when I was very little I was raped in a family member’s house. The adults in my family failed to keep me safe, and I never forgave them, and I don’t think they deserve forgiveness. There’s better awareness these days but parents still give people the benefit of the doubt or don’t want to make a fuss / make accusations, or lose friends, instead of focusing 100% on their child’s safety.

Your friend has lurched from one bad relationship to another. You probably can’t stop her getting entangled with awful men, but when there’s a child involved something needs to be said.

I completely disagree with all the posters suggesting a half hearted or toned down version along the lines of "He seemed very nice but it was a bit weird that he was so keen to help dd to the toilet" or even worse the person who suggested you should present it almost positively as him being very eager to impress.

I'd understand wording it this way if the main incident was the chocolate brownie and priority was keeping the friendship but this is so clearly a safeguarding issue.

This is already a woman who clearly does not act on even direct comments so anything short of explicit "I have serious concerns" is just going to be waved off/misconstrued by her. She's not going to get a hint and if you mix the warning with a positive she will just focus on the positive and ignore the rest as shes clearly so desperate to be in a relationship.

I honestly can't think of any example where I would offer to take someone else's child to the toilet if their parents were right there and in their own house! Not even if it was a neice/nephew or close friends kid. Let alone someone I'd never met before. Anyone with half a brain knows that's inappropriate, even more so, unfortunately as a man with a young girl...apart from anything else who actively wants to deal with someone else's poo/wee unless they have to?

The fact he did it once, then when you stopped him blatantly engineered another false opportunity to do it again, AND then called himself "uncle" and offered chocolate -OK on its own, clear grooming red flag in context and that you and your DH clearly had exactly the same thought without discussing it with each other all adds up.

Why is God's name would she say that she liked him? She doesn't and it helps no one to pretend that she does. This man sounds potentially very dangerous. Thankfully, it sounds as though the OP is dealing with this appropriately.

I concur with most of the posters here - have been a childminder, run brownies/beavers and am a mum so have had child safeguarding rammed down my throat for years.

In all my two decades of parenting and being around other parents I have never known a single man who would volunteer to go and help a stranger’s child in his/her own home when mum is there and has been called. In fact, not sure many of the actual dads would actively go and help their own child if mum (or the childminder) was there, either (obviously they all would if mum not around).

If it had been your friend’s child and she actually asked him if he could go and help, then maaaaybee. But your child? In your home?

His proactive enthusiasm to get involved in your DCs intimate care is a red flag to me, I’m afraid. And you do have a duty to share your concerns. It might risk your friendship, when it’s already a bit fragile, but you could couch it in terms of the fact that your child was alarmed by his presence in the loo when she had called you.

You will need to be direct and just tell her what you think - don't give her any opportunity to misinterpret or minimise what you say. I doubt she will agree or do anything immediately, but she will hopefully take it on board at some level and sharpen up a bit and take look more closely at what this man is doing in her own house.

That sort of behaviour from someone who is a stranger to your DD would of been enough for me not to feel comfortable with him being around my child anymore but the weird mishearing of her needing the toilet again wtf is that about! And him thinking that he would be taking her instead of her own parents? Also undermining your rules about chocolate and calling himself uncle. He either has some serious social issues or he is indeed a creep or worse. And there are children involved so for this reason you need to bring up these concerns to your friend.

All you can do is tell her how you felt and what made you uncomfortable and that you don't want to be around him.

She will do what she pleases with that.

I would also remind her about last time tbh.

Nope nope nope.

This is absolute lunacy. Of course you tell her what you really think - her child could be in real danger. Never, ever, ever can I imagine a scenario where a normal person would go to wipe the bum of a toddler in their own home when their parent is present. That is unimaginably troubling!!

Even if I go out on an imaginary limb and say 'maybe he's trying to show what a great father figure he is to his gf's friend' it's inconceivable a person wold do this without minimally saying 'shall I help her?' Like....you would check - you just would. I don't even change my nephew's nappy without asking my sister if I should.

And then he tried to orchestrate himself, alone in a cubicle with a child?!?!?

This is clear red flag behaviour. You shouldn't be questioning if you are overreacting, you should be asking what else should you be doing? I'd be calling NSPCC tbh.

This couldn't be more weird. Truly.

Be honest OP. Very, very, confidently honest.

Separate from your friend, do you know his job OP ? If it's something with children you might want to flag his behaviour.

Your DH has hit that nail squarely on the head , OP.

I wonder how often he ‘wipes the bum’ of your friend’s daughter? Maybe worth asking her ( in what may turn out to be your final conversation, but there issues more important than friendship).

I'd reply "No Comment", she'd surely pick up on that ?

Exactly! Sugarcoating. There is no say in a kind way in situations like this. God forbid a child is molested or worse but we don't want to upset friend. This attitude causes abuse to go on. It's not the time to be nice

I think if someone is determined to have “the perfect family” they’re going to ignore any red flags and any negative comments from anyone else. I’ve seen it over and over. Tell her you think he’s odd and that you found his behaviour around the toilet issues inappropriate but don’t expect her to take it on board. Just see it as something that she’s aware you’ve observed and leave it at that

The more I think about this, the more worrying it is.
For those who think the attempt to take your DD to the toilet in the restaurant, was too obvious. Maybe he got himself excited thinking he was going to wipe her in your bathroom and got a let down, so he was willing to take even more of a chance at the restaurant? I know it's a sick thought, but people who do these things are sickos!
Lots of nice men would be scared to approach a lost and crying child in a supermarket, in case they get accused of trying to take them! Men know full well that they need to be aware of these things. No way this new fella is so stupid that he thinks it's perfectly OK to offer to wipe an unrelated child's bottom and to take her to the toilet when the parents are present!! There is zero chance he had good intentions. Get angry OP. Your friend has asked, give it to her straight.

Re sugar - nobody in their right mind would encourage a child to eat something the parents didn't want them to. I think it would be worthwhile to talk to her on the lines of 'does he take our daughter to te loo' and 'is that OK with you?

Hmm…when is started reading this, I thought just say ‘he seems nice’ then move on. Lots of people are with wankers.

but I just can’t get past the taking your daughter to the toilet. That is weird! An experienced parent knows that kids don’t like that.

I think you need to say to your friend that he made you uncomfortable around your daughter. She may cool things off with you, but I think it’s worth the risk to protect her daughter. She is unlikely to go on your opinion alone, but if she’s having doubts, don’t give her permission to ignore them by giving your blessing.

at least you will have planted a seed in her head. She will be very vigilant as a result.

From what you're noticed about him it full of red flags. She has a 4 year old daughter who has already heard and possibly saw her mother involved in DV situation. Along with this your friend seems to be a woman rushes into relationships because she does not like being alone. She let him move in after a year and is talking about having a baby with this man.

You need to tell her face to face what happened and what you noticed about him. I would do a Claire and Sarah law search on him as well. She might not like what your saying about him but I remind her that she has a 4 year daughter. I would also say that you know that her and her daughter have been through a lot due to DV from her marriage and you don't want her or her daughter to end up in another bad situation with a man again.
I would tell her as well that she needs to do the freedom program to help her have good relationship a man.
If she refuses to do anything, tells you he loves her and her daughter ect I would contact the relevant agency and report a child safety concern.

I know of 2 sisters that were abused by their own father. Even now it's had a major effect on both of their lives. One of the girls had kids with 2 different father's. The father of the second family of kids got full custody because she was unable to care for them due to her drinking.
One of this ladies older daughters had social services involved with her kids as her husband was drunk, abusive and their school reported a child safety concern.

The other sister had kids with this man who was in and out of work due to his heavy drinking and she eventually told him to leave their rented house. She has been in some poor relationship since then but at least she made sure her kids were looked after.

I'd be very blunt, with total understanding that it may be the end of the friendship.

Those of us with a history of abuse are probably feeling the hairs on the backs of our necks stand up reading your post.

Pushing boundaries of parental authority ("don't listen to Mummy") is a classic grooming technique. I don't care that he hasn't done anything in particular, I don't care that there are plenty of ways to explain it away, I don't even care about being fair or kind. I do care that he pinged your radar and your friend asked you directly.

That combination would make it impossible for me to be vague or diplomatic.

I’m not sure I would bother talking to your friend about him. Just call the SS in her area. She will minimise as she can’t afford in her mind to do anything else. If the kid is in school call the school and report it to the safeguarding officer too.

The friendship is dead, she will cover for him. In her mind he’s what she needs. Now it's about protecting the child.

Thing is, the friendship is shot anyway, as you can never ever let your child go and play there, plus I would not want to hang out with them any more.

It's so beyond anything to have strange men trying to 'help' your child in the toilet, I have never ever experienced anything like it. Why would they jump up to take a child to the toilet instead of the parent? It's unimaginable.

So, on that basis, I would tell her, I'd say 'you aren't going to like what I've got to say' and then say it and then probably the friendship will break but at least you spoke out.

I did not let my children have sleepovers til they were 10/11, and was told on here I was paranoid and causing them to have a complex etc. So glad I listened to my instinct that beds/loos and strange men (even if they are other people's partners) don't mix- I was 'fondled' by a teenage boy whilst on a sleepover (older brother) and since then have been very alert to the dangers and wanted my children to be old enough to know what was appropriate and know to tell me if stuff was happening.

Tbh, given OP’s DH’s response to the restaurant encounter, I would def tell the friend and point out that DH had the same unsolicited response.

I am also increasingly of the mind that a call to social services might be warranted if she does not listen. Her DC needs to be interviewed by a professional to ascertain that nothing has gone on already.

I agree: the friendship is over if she doesn’t leave him and probably over if she does leave him as she will be angry you “cost” her the boyfriend.

Under the circumstances I would call her for a face to face and just be brutally direct. I think it is actually easier for people to take in harsh truths, in some ways.

”I have to tell you I am concerned about bf’s weird behavior when we met. Normal people don’t do X. This is alarmingly inappropriate behavior. My DH and I consider him a safeguarding risk to our child snd to yours. We will never allow our child to see him again. That is how seriously we take these red flags snd our intuition. Please check his background and consider the risk to your child of welcoming a predator into your home. You and I both know that I was right sbout your first partner. I am right about this one too. Please reconsider.”

I am also increasingly of the mind that a call to social services might be warranted if she does not listen. Her DC needs to be interviewed by a professional to ascertain that nothing has gone on already

Absolutely. There is a little girl at serious, SERIOUS risk here. I'll bet my house that this nonce has been "helping" the child on the toilet for months.

The "friend" is not fit to be a mother in my opinion. She's unforgivably blind to the danger in which she has put her child in pursuit of her own wants.