Grandmother killed by 2 XL bullies

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Grandmother killed by 2 XL bullies whilst apparently separating fighting bully pups.

Longer jail sentences, minimum of 5 years for owners of dogs that kill people for not controlling them.

Aibu?

When a society has become full of anti-social wankers supporting one another and taking great pleasure in threatening anyone that questions their anti-social behaviour (I. E. Dangerous dogs), you're on a big downward spiral I. E the UK.

These people have been brought up to know nothing other than being bitter and twisted and treating everyone that's questions them like shit and getting away with it. The more of them there are and the less punishment there's is, the worse it gets.

Society has basically gone to shit and it's only going to get worse as the law tiptoes round upsetting majority numbers and that's the problem.... Anti-social twats are ever increasing in number and decent people are being marginalised.

The ban on breeding actually came in on 31st December 2023, only a month before you said I realise, so unless under 6 weeks, the puppies would've just escaped the ban.

Problem is that people have been projecting their emotions onto dogs for the past 30,000 years. That is how the dog's genetic ancestor managed to hijack our oxytocin pathways and thus eventually became canis domesticus.

There are instances of dogs being regarded as human-like across all cultures and going back a very long way. For example, the passage in the Odyssey (composed c 8th century BC but the underlying stories probably much older) where Odysseus' dog is the only one to recognise him when he returns to ithaca after 20 years in disguise, the dog's sheer joy a dn love shown to Odysseus is described in very human terms.

Like it or not dogs and human brains have evolved alongside each other for a long time so I don't think we can turn off that projection. It happens with other animals too. If you look at how, say, safari workers tlak about the animals they observe and interact with.

I also am mindful that human beings are also animals.

Bomb-sniffing dogs are amazing - kudos to your BIL for doing such an important job :-)

I am literally horrified by this. There have been many tragic cases of dogs mauling to death/killing toddlers and babies, especially over the past 25 years or so. But these fucking beasts are killing ADULTS. Grown women, and grown MEN. Imagine being so savagely attacked by a DOG that you die. NO dog like this should be bred.

Police need to seize all XL bullies, and they need to be euthanized. Every. Single. One. Anyone who thinks they should be kept as 'pets' needs locking up frankly. And people need to stop this 'aww but he's just a soft old bear and I demand we keep him' trope. They all need seizing and putting to sleep. And no more should exist.

ENOUGH of the 'aww it's not the dogs fault' bullshit that some people come out with. THESE ARE NOT PETS AND SHOULD NOT BE AROUND IN SOCIETY AND DOMESTIC HOMES. It needs to be against the law to have one. Don't just muzzle them all. They all need to go!

I had never even heard of these dogs til last year. Why are they suddenly fucking everywhere?!

R.I.P. Esther Martin. That poor woman. As has been said, what a horrific way to die. 😢

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My sister had farm dogs. They were dogs but substitute children or ‘cuddly wuddly ikkle babies’. They were well trained (neighbouring farm had sheep so they had to be well trained - farmers would shoot any dogs worrying their livestock).

they were all beautifully behaved and friendly dogs. Never had any problems with their behaviour even when they were old/sick.

DS adored them but we never left him alone (when he was little) and it was drilled into him that you never went up to a dog you didn’t know and certainly didn’t try to pat/cuddle/pick one up.

Some people just don’t train their dogs and see £££££ in breeding. I knew one man who was breeding these XL dogs and was charging tens of thousands per pup. I thought he was making it up but apparently not. He was a dog breeder so I suppose you can charge more for pedigrees (are they pedigrees or like these new candles labradoodles or jackapoo types)?

@SweetBirdsong I am a huge dog lover, and I completely agree with you.

Let's hope then that children's services remove the boy because clearly his so-called father is not fit to be caring for a child. Poor boy, to have lost his mum, probably lived in terror with those dogs (the fact the boy's father gave instructions to the grandmother who was killed telling her to hit them with a broom when they fight each other shows that he knew they were vicious and aggressive already), and now has witnessed his grandmother being mauled and had to listen to her screams as she was ripped to pieces.

This man should be sent to prison for a very long time.

@DrunkenElephant

@SweetBirdsong I am a huge dog lover, and I completely agree with you.

Thank you. I think most dogs are lovely - and any badly behaved ones are usually badly behaved because of the owner. But these XL bully dogs are absolutely ridiculous! They should not be around in society or peoples homes at ALL.

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And even if they did, they’re not so powerful that even an average person couldn’t pull one off. XL bully? Average person stands no chance.

100% agree with all of this.

It drives me mad when dogs (on lead or off) come running up to you and the owner says patronisingly "he won't harm you, he's just being friendly". Maybe I just don't want to interact with any dog!

I fully agree. We're basically a lawless country now as the police are impotent and incompetent. We've had a few decades of them ignoring the "small" stuff and pandering to minorities, and that's just given the green light to "certain" sectors of society to do what the hell they want, whether it's anti-social behaviour, tax evasion (black economy), driving offences (speeding, parking, mobile phones, no road tax, no insurance, no driving licence, etc), shoplifting, street crime, drugs, etc etc.. Now things are so bad, the police have lost all hope of enforcing anything but the worst crimes (or the easy targets like speed cameras).

The restrictions only say it has to be neutered. The restrictions for chimps are more onerous

@SweetBirdsong i literally can't bear to imagine the pain she suffered but I bet the scrote that owns the dogs doesn't give a damn and that's the sort of people we're dealing with. They do not give a damn. There's only one fit punishment for him and that's enduring the same fate she did.

If the law was harder on people like him, we'd see less horrific behaviour and society would be better. As it is, people like him behave how the hell they like and get away with it. It won't change though will it, because, 'human rights'. The same human rights that the scrotes don't afford to those that have to live in the same fucking country as them.

Once upon a time scrotes like him wouldnt have lasted five minutes. His neighbours would have dealt with him and probably before he got chance to reproduce with a bit of luck.

I am absolutely sick to death of the pits of society, ruling society.

You need a vet to tranquillise animals. Police have guns. Guns or tasers, so they have a choice of shooting or not shooting. They needed the dogs off the woman and didn’t have time to wait for the in call vet to tranquillise. They were lucky their armed police unit was near by, lots of rural areas would have a long wait for armed response.

Lots of dogs are aggressive at the vets. Not nice obviously but it doesn't reflect what they are like as family pets. At the vets they are scared and sometimes in pain or ill, being subjected to unwanted poking and prodding and having their warning signals ignored.

Agree with you lots of retrievers are aggressive though, I don't think they are a good pet for homes with children. Labradors are better

The dogs would need to be captured and restrained or put in a cage before being tranquilized. A vet can't just walk up to an aggressive dog and inject it. Even if they did it will take several minutes for the dog to go to sleep. That's if you could even find a vet willing to come out at short notice.
Potentially they could be caught on a dog catcher pole but that would be more dangerous and would probably take longer than shooting. The priority was to get them off the woman so unless 2 skilled and equipped police dog handlers were on site it doesn't seem like a quick option. You won't find a private vet willing to come out and catch an aggressive dog that is mailing someone to death.

i think the child’s mother died in recent months. ( grandmother’s daughter) The poor woman was visiting her grandson and this happened. Poor child is traumatised and grieving already and now witnessing this and a further death in his family. I hope he’s taken good care of.

Definitely not!! Collies are lovely.

Oh OK I had previously understood that police canine specialists used a tranquilliser dart then destroyed the dog off site, thank you for correcting me! :-)

@CantDealwithChristmas that is fascinating regarding the oxytocin pathways - so neurodevelopment has aligned in terms of the way we (as human animals) interact with animals? I had no idea that this was a thing, thanks for the knowledge. Sounds like we have been groomed by the animals as much as we groom them! Peak MN. I do find BIL's work fascinating as he uses techniques and behaviour modification methodology (click training, classical conditioning etc) that I am interested in (did a bit of neuroscience in my MSc).

They were lucky their armed police unit was near by, lots of rural areas would have a long wait for armed response.

Apparently it is "snobbery" to note such things, but it is unsurprising that there is an armed police unit fairly nearby given the well-publicised issues with the area where this incident occurred.

To me having one of these as a pet is no different than keeping a lion as a pet

there just not suitable
trained or not
there too big and powerful to be cooped up in a house

I have now read that this woman, and may she rest in peace, had been trying to separate two puppies from 'fighting' with a broom. The mother's instinct to protect her young no doubt kicked in, hence a tragedy.

Why on earth do we think that dogs should somehow understand what seems to be 'expected' of them these days. They are no longer allowed to be dogs - children are allowed to crawl all over them, we stick them in handbags, dress them up, but we never allow them to be 'dogs' with instincts, not taking time to make proper educated decisions about dog ownership. It's like if someone went up to your child and hit it, you would be expected to stand back and not retaliate, because 'violence' would not be the answer. Most of us would attack and viciously at someone who hurt our child. If you did, you would be shot. But dogs are not allowed to have this instinct. It would be good if someone could tell us how to get rid of it, but they can't. Shoving puppies around with a broom is an act of aggression, and the dog retaliated. If that is indeed what happened.

I find the daily mail type outrage on here ridiculous. 'They all need to go'; they all need to be euthanised, shoot them all, owners of them are 'scum' 'thick' and the like.

When you manage to shoot every xl bully in the country what exactly do you think those who never take responsibility for their dogs - whatever size they are, whatever breed they are - are going to do? They're going to move on to the next breed so until you sort out the people who use these dogs as status symbols, protection in drug rackets and the like, its never ending. The human cost will go on. But, hey, we shot all the xl bullies, so that should make you feel better. It is always going to be the responsible owners who bear the brunt of idiots like the owner in this instance. You will find, I'm sure, that most dog owners and particularly bull breed owners absolutely abhor owners such as this, who has done nothing but brought many many innocent dogs into BSL.

A dog has been shot because it did what it was supposed to do, protect its young, a woman is dead, the owner of the dog allowed his son to witness an horrific incident, the emergency services have had to deal with it, and all because the owner wanted to make money. He flouted the law as it stands at this time; he refused to conform at all in any way. He didn't care about the dogs, that he allowed to be in this situation, he didn't care about his son, and he definitely didn't care about the woman, and I believe he was the one who said she should use a broom to stop whatever was going on. A backyard breeder displaying the most ignorant traits possible, who wilfully put that woman in a dangerous place. That man is the one you should be blaming. It is his fault, and only his fault.

This man needs to be charged with manslaughter; he needs to be banned from ever having a dog. He needs to go to prison for a very long time. However, instead of being charged with manslaughter, I think, he has, at this time, only been arrested for offences under the Dangerous Dogs Act, so tell me again that government cares about the people who have been victims? That they care enough about YOU to prevent these things from happening. They don't, but Joe Public and the media should, and efforts should be put into wanting the law changed so that we can deal with this owner, and the like, and take owners and breeders like this off our streets.

@Schnauzersaremyheros That is exactly what I thought when I read the article. I totally agree with the new laws regarding these dogs but it makes you wonder how the parent dogs had been treated and it was obviously triggered out of fear for their puppies, by them seeing a broom being taken to them. Absolutely tragic all round, totally the fault of the idiot owner, RIP to this poor lady.

Yes, animal behavourists and evo biologists do theorise that dogs (not sure about other animals) and humans neurodevelopment has gone side by side for about 30,000 years.

Evo biologists theorise that the dog's ancestor (not a wolf exactly, a cousin of the wolf) first approached human hunter gatherer tribes about 30,000 years ago. They theorise that the first contact was made between pups and children (puppies and children form very close bonds to this day).

Humans and dogs quickly realised that there was a mutually beneficial relationship - dogs could help with protection, tracking, sniffing out food sources; humans could give dogs food and protection in return.

Both humans and dogs show increased oxytocin activity when they look into each others' eyes; numerous peer reviewed studies have been done to show this.

Humans go into deeper sleep when they sleep alongside dogs. Dog owners consistently show lower levels of stress and better heart thealth (although correlation isn't causation as dog owners also tend to be more physically active.)

the evolutionary bond is very, very old.

Fun fact - evo biologists believe that all dogs' eyes used to be a very cold light blue, like wolves', but some gradually evolved to brown eyes as this made them look less threatening and 'cuter' to early humans.

If you look into a dog's eye you'll see that its real pupil is tiny and quite repitilian looking. The big 'fake' pupil and brown iris is window dressing only to make them look more cute and human so we'll look after them.

Yes, they groomed us and we groomed them!