Page 6 | Grandmother killed by 2 XL bullies

ABCDEFGHIJK123456 · 2024-02-05T07:36:44+00:00

Grandmother killed by 2 XL bullies whilst apparently separating fighting bully pups. Longer jail sentences, minimum of 5 years for owners of dogs that kill people for not controlling them. Aibu?

zoom1982 · 05/02/2024 09:54

This moron should be looking at jail time and a long sentence at that then let's see how tough he is.

jasflowers · 05/02/2024 09:54

Walker1178 · 05/02/2024 09:50

I think this case just highlights the issues people had with the ban. Responsible owners have complied with the restrictions. The idiots that haven’t are the ones that have created an unstable animal for status. We’re going to carry on seeing fatal dog attacks as once they have exhausted this breed, they’ll move onto the next.

The law needs changing to restrict the owners not the dogs

If you choose to have an Bully dog, by default you are not responsible.

On your wider point, perhaps we need to start from the default of allowed dogs?

So instead of a banned list, we have an "allowed" list, this would prevent, as you say, the idiots moving onto the next type of similar dog.

NewOrder · 05/02/2024 09:54

GaroTheMushroom · 05/02/2024 09:52

They will, it’s all over my local Facebook page people defending them and it being the owner not the breed and “little dogs are just as bad and bite just as much” maybe but I know which one I would rather take the chance with.

Show quote history

Exactly. If my Italian greyhound ever went for me I know I could yeet it to the moon with one swift kick (I wouldnt, because she wouldnt!)

Herdinggoats · 05/02/2024 09:54

These dogs are a weapon. I’ll never buy the “they’re great family pets line”, people have them because they look tough- it is the only reason. A which point you haven’t chosen a dog, you have chosen a weapon. The intention behind owning one of these dogs is completely different to owning a Labrador or a Spaniel.

When these dogs kill or injure people the owners should be prosecuted in the same way as if someone was killed with an unlicensed gun. It was never an accident.

Hereyoume · 05/02/2024 09:55

NewOrder · 05/02/2024 09:53

If an animal can overpower a grown adult male then they should be banned.

I believe it's called to 50% rule.

If your dog weighs at least half your weight, you aren't talking your dog for a walk, they are taking you for one.

Mrsjayy · 05/02/2024 09:55

Hereyoume · 05/02/2024 09:53

So much hysteria on this thread.

Dogs are animals, they have sentience, they behave like, well, animals. You cannot hold a person responsible for murder or manslaughter because a dog has killed someone. From the dogs point of view a person is just another animal, and animals kill other animals, sometimes for food, sometimes for territory, sometimes animals even kill and eat their own young.

If someone climbs a fence at a zoo and sticks their arm inside a tigers cage, we don't blame the tiger for ripping their arm off, we would all say how stupid the person was. But for some reason people don't seem to be able to apply the same logic to dogs. XL dogs are selective bread to be as big, strong and aggressive as possible, so it's not really a surprise that so many people are killed by them. It's like keeping a lion in your house. You know how cats like to play with toys and sometimes scratch an bite people, but a tabby isn't going to kill anyone, a lion however, behaving in exactly the same way absolutely would kill you. But they're both still cats. Same difference between a jack russel and an XL.

Blaming owners for a dogs behaviour is just nonsense, dogs are animals, they think for themselves. BUT, some dogs are dangerous, like some cats are dangerous, depends on the size of the animal. So a better solution would be to pass a law criminalising the possession of certain berrds who by their very nature are exceptionally dangerous, such as the XL.

So, let's say a MINIMUM term of imprisonment for anybody found in possession/ownership/control of known dangerous dog breeds. And all animals of type PTS, without exception. That way we could ensure the "extinction" of those breeds.

Remember, we actually allow people to train dogs to attack and bite people, and we pay them to do it. So it's a little hypocritical to ignore police dogs and their behaviour, but suddenly call for the imprisonment of "Dave" who's Alsation got a little bit over excited at the park and knocked a kid over.

what are you on about my god have a word with yourself!

ShoePalaver · 05/02/2024 09:55

unexpectediteminthebraggingarea · 05/02/2024 08:50

I'd apply the same rule to cars too. All killing machines

Show quote history

A 5 year minimum term for anyone causing death by careless or dangerous driving is also sorely needed.

ShoePalaver · 05/02/2024 09:58

jasflowers · 05/02/2024 09:54

If you choose to have an Bully dog, by default you are not responsible.

On your wider point, perhaps we need to start from the default of allowed dogs?

So instead of a banned list, we have an "allowed" list, this would prevent, as you say, the idiots moving onto the next type of similar dog.

Show quote history

I'd ban anything over 30 kg and require a licence for anything over 15 kg.

No more stupid arguments about breed and would encourage Labrador owners to not let their dogs get over fat!

Hereyoume · 05/02/2024 09:59

Mrsjayy · 05/02/2024 09:55

what are you on about my god have a word with yourself!

Show quote history

Please explain?

I think I have raised some reasonable points.

RubyEarWax · 05/02/2024 10:00

This reply has been deleted

Troll banned

RubyEarWax · 05/02/2024 10:01

This reply has been deleted

Troll banned

ShoePalaver · 05/02/2024 10:01

PaulCostinRIP · 05/02/2024 09:11

According to one family member the puppies were playing and getting rough and the son told the grandmother to separate them using a broom and that's when both of the adult dogs intervened and attacked her.

So whilst there are mitigating factors for the dogs to believe they were protecting the puppies the fact is that the son was utterly clueless in the raising of the puppies and not being able to control the adult dogs under these circumstances.

The dogs that attacked are also victims as they should not have been in the care of someone who has poor knowledge of dog behaviour.

I wonder what will happen to the puppies.

The puppies will be destroyed. It's illegal to re-home XL bullies since 31st January so there's nothing else that can be done with them.

(Obviously this man was planning to sell them illegally... making a nice sum of tax free income there)

RubyEarWax · 05/02/2024 10:03

This reply has been deleted

Troll banned

ShoePalaver · 05/02/2024 10:03

This reply has been deleted

Troll banned

It's illegal to keep dangerous wild animals such as lions or chimps unless following strict rules, you can't keep them in a family home. So yes if anyone did this they would be liable.

I also don't see anyone calling for jail for the owner of a dog that knocks someone over. Nonsensical post

jasflowers · 05/02/2024 10:05

Hereyoume · 05/02/2024 09:59

Please explain?

I think I have raised some reasonable points.

Show quote history

The points you ve raised are inaccurate eg a tabby is not a small lion & not all dogs have no fear, XLs are breed for this characteristic.

Banning breeds don't work, XLs are mongrels in any case.

To reduce dog attacks, size needs to be the factor, then exemptions for say a St Bernard.
30kg sounds about right.

there needs to be licencing too, this would be used to have many more dog wardens, at present Cornwall has just one, might as well not bother.

VeterinaryCareAssistant · 05/02/2024 10:05

HoneyButterPopcorn · 05/02/2024 09:37

I saw the victims daughter interviewed and she said that her sister had died (I think the owner was her son - or maybe a son in law?). Either way, he had the ‘dont want people to tell him what to do with his dogs’ attitude and seems to be breeding them (why else would he have all those pups?

so they are a banned breed. Were these licenced (how do you get a licence anyway)?

You go onto the gov/DEFRA website and pay £92 for an exemption certificate. You need to provide proof of microchip and a certificate from the vet to say it's been neutered (or a note from the vet saying why it can't be, age or timing of season etc.). Then you are exempted.
You then have to make sure it's on lead and muzzled in public.

Walker1178 · 05/02/2024 10:05

jasflowers · 05/02/2024 09:54

If you choose to have an Bully dog, by default you are not responsible.

On your wider point, perhaps we need to start from the default of allowed dogs?

So instead of a banned list, we have an "allowed" list, this would prevent, as you say, the idiots moving onto the next type of similar dog.

Show quote history

I’ve put my point across on previous threads and I still stand by my view…

If we can license someone in this country to own a wild cat which is capable of killing a human why can we not apply the same rules to a dog with similar ability?

I also believe that an XL bully is not a suitable dog for the majority of homes/lifestyles and that’s why we see a proportionally high issue with these dogs. Their needs are simply not be met and that will always result in a stressed and unpredictable animal.

Hereyoume · 05/02/2024 10:05

This reply has been deleted

Troll banned

Yes. Because chimps are dangerous and shouldn't be kept as pets.

Did you read my post?

I specifically said that all dangerous dogs, such as XL Bullies, should NEVER be kept as pets and anybody in possession should be jailed.

Animals are animals, we put them in environments which are unsuitable and then blame the animal. This is flawed logic.

Blame the person who put the animal there.

If you actually read my post you would see that I agree with you.

RubyEarWax · 05/02/2024 10:06

This reply has been deleted

Troll banned

RubyEarWax · 05/02/2024 10:10

This reply has been deleted

Troll banned

Hereyoume · 05/02/2024 10:13

jasflowers · 05/02/2024 10:05

The points you ve raised are inaccurate eg a tabby is not a small lion & not all dogs have no fear, XLs are breed for this characteristic.

Banning breeds don't work, XLs are mongrels in any case.

To reduce dog attacks, size needs to be the factor, then exemptions for say a St Bernard.
30kg sounds about right.

there needs to be licencing too, this would be used to have many more dog wardens, at present Cornwall has just one, might as well not bother.

Show quote history

"A tabby is not a small lion"

Yes. I believe that's exactly what I said.

But a much bigger cat, say a lion, behaving in a similar manner to a tabby, would cause serious injury/death, simply by playing. Look at videos of lions in sanctuary in Africa and see how the tame ones interact with the rangers.

Size isn't really relevant as you almost never hear of a Wolfhound or a Mountain dog attacking someone.

Hereyoume · 05/02/2024 10:15

This reply has been deleted

Troll banned

Yes.

But only if you own one of the banned breeds, the same should apply to someone who owns a collie.

Ravensky · 05/02/2024 10:16

If the scrote that owned the dogs that killed this poor lady isn't jailed then the law is an absolute ass. Damn shame he can't be castrated at the same time.

A hard penalty needs to be handed out, particularly as we're now post-ban, as a clear signal to anyone with these types of dog, to understand their responsibility and what these dogs are capable of.

I hope that it will lead to more being turned in but I very much doubt it will as ego seems to be abundance over brain cells.

LakeTiticaca · 05/02/2024 10:17

MeMyBooksAndMyCats · 05/02/2024 07:52

Completely agree with you, round them up and PTS.
I saw one being walked the other day unmuzzled. Absolutely terrifying, there will be a lot more deaths due to this breed.

Some of the bloody owners want putting to sleep as well

jasflowers · 05/02/2024 10:22

Hereyoume · 05/02/2024 10:13

"A tabby is not a small lion"

Yes. I believe that's exactly what I said.

But a much bigger cat, say a lion, behaving in a similar manner to a tabby, would cause serious injury/death, simply by playing. Look at videos of lions in sanctuary in Africa and see how the tame ones interact with the rangers.

Size isn't really relevant as you almost never hear of a Wolfhound or a Mountain dog attacking someone.

Show quote history

Size/Weight is most certainly a determinate factor in dogs that can kill.

Unless this is done, then expect the breeders to use selective breeding to make another dog to kill people.

As i said, owners of large but more "controllable" dogs would have their breed "allowed" so a GSP (pointer) which can get to 30kg plus would be on the allowed list

We need to move from a banned list to an allowed one, with everything else by default banned.