Page 13 | Grandmother killed by 2 XL bullies

ABCDEFGHIJK123456 · 2024-02-05T07:36:44+00:00

Grandmother killed by 2 XL bullies whilst apparently separating fighting bully pups. Longer jail sentences, minimum of 5 years for owners of dogs that kill people for not controlling them. Aibu?

ImCamembertTheBigCheese · 05/02/2024 15:05

Why breed them.

Easy money

Poniesandpigs · 05/02/2024 15:10

Important point by @FizzingAda.

If a litter of puppies are so aggressive they are needing to be separated by a broom it tells me all I need to know about how genetically unsound and dangerous they are.

No doubt these would have been rehomed to clueless families thinking they are buying clean slates and being deluded enough to think you can train out lines and lines of aggression. All of us who work in behaviour know this is 100% not the case

TallulahBetty · 05/02/2024 15:13

daffodilandtulip · 05/02/2024 13:37

If your dog weighs at least half your weight, you aren't talking your dog for a walk, they are taking you for one.

Indeed. There's a woman near us with an XL. She's always walking it in the kids park. She stops and tells you to go around her because she can't move him over. She actually admits that she can't move it. What chance would any of those kids have if it ran off from her? (I haven't seen it since the rules came in, so wonder what she will do.)

At that stage, it is no longer your pet. You are ITS pet. It is in charge. It will walk YOU. It will kill YOU/someone else if it wants.

Willmafrockfit · 05/02/2024 15:21

they dont need a muzzle in the house
such an awful story.
the poor grandson

badhappenings · 05/02/2024 15:25

It should be a murder charge.

Why do we pussy foot around these thugs, we all know why they breed them.

They don't care about other people's lives, let alone safety.

TallulahBetty · 05/02/2024 15:25

Willmafrockfit · 05/02/2024 15:21

they dont need a muzzle in the house
such an awful story.
the poor grandson

They SHOULD have muzzles everywhere. Evil things

Tracker1234 · 05/02/2024 15:25

These dogs dont have good owners or proper trainers. A small house, a scumbag who has probably never worked a day in his life, having kids, showing off to his scummy friends, being the hard man. They then decide that they will have the ultimate status symbol (and then breed from them and sell them).

We are paying for this twat

MalcolmTuckersSwearBox · 05/02/2024 15:26

Emotionalsupportviper · 05/02/2024 13:43

A lot of the trouble now is also people buying working-type dogs from working parents, which have been specifically and intensively bred to do a particular job, and then expecting them to fit into a 9-to-5 lifestyle, left at home alone a large part of the day with nothing to do, and then not properly exercised and occupied even at the weekend because the owners want a "rest".

Dogs in this situation quite literally become insane.

There are "pet" strains of many working breeds now where the instincts that have been bred in for centuries are bit dampened by selective breeding- if you want a border collie, get a pet strain one* - don't go to a farm and get one that's been bred to be on its paws running about after sheep for a solid 12 hours, and using its initiative when it needs to. Dogs like that find pet home very hard to cope with even when they have company all day and are properly occupied.

*However still expect it to need a heck of a lot of exercise and to be mentally stimulated. They are energetic, clever dogs - you can blunt these instincts little, but nor erase them.

Edited for spelling

Edited

Show quote history

I agree with you. Unfortunately, XL's don't appear to have a 'pet strain' line at all and instead seem to be a toxic combination of intensively bred for purpose (reactive aggression) and utterly unsuitable environment (overcrowded homes, young families, insecurely fenced, no socialisation, no appropriate enrichment or redirection of unwanted behaviours).

MalcolmTuckersSwearBox · 05/02/2024 15:30

ImCamembertTheBigCheese · 05/02/2024 15:05

Why breed them.

Easy money

It was suggested that breeding these kinds of dogs has become a 'side hustle' for drug dealers in recent years. Very profitable and much less risky legally (prior to the ban). They also breed mastiff types like cane corsos, basically anything big and scary looking.

Winter2020 · 05/02/2024 15:34

Hereyoume · 05/02/2024 09:53

So much hysteria on this thread.

Dogs are animals, they have sentience, they behave like, well, animals. You cannot hold a person responsible for murder or manslaughter because a dog has killed someone. From the dogs point of view a person is just another animal, and animals kill other animals, sometimes for food, sometimes for territory, sometimes animals even kill and eat their own young.

If someone climbs a fence at a zoo and sticks their arm inside a tigers cage, we don't blame the tiger for ripping their arm off, we would all say how stupid the person was. But for some reason people don't seem to be able to apply the same logic to dogs. XL dogs are selective bread to be as big, strong and aggressive as possible, so it's not really a surprise that so many people are killed by them. It's like keeping a lion in your house. You know how cats like to play with toys and sometimes scratch an bite people, but a tabby isn't going to kill anyone, a lion however, behaving in exactly the same way absolutely would kill you. But they're both still cats. Same difference between a jack russel and an XL.

Blaming owners for a dogs behaviour is just nonsense, dogs are animals, they think for themselves. BUT, some dogs are dangerous, like some cats are dangerous, depends on the size of the animal. So a better solution would be to pass a law criminalising the possession of certain berrds who by their very nature are exceptionally dangerous, such as the XL.

So, let's say a MINIMUM term of imprisonment for anybody found in possession/ownership/control of known dangerous dog breeds. And all animals of type PTS, without exception. That way we could ensure the "extinction" of those breeds.

Remember, we actually allow people to train dogs to attack and bite people, and we pay them to do it. So it's a little hypocritical to ignore police dogs and their behaviour, but suddenly call for the imprisonment of "Dave" who's Alsation got a little bit over excited at the park and knocked a kid over.

One sniff of a police dog randomly attacking members of the public - let alone killing a Grandma - and it would be all over the news. Police dogs are trained so they are under the control of their handler. These dogs were not under control.

Way to minimise saying people are calling for someone to be imprisoned if their dog knocks someone over. The poster is asking is someone should be imprisoned if their dog kills someone. There is a lot of ground between knocking someone over and tearing someone apart.

And no big dogs that are knocking over kids on a park (out of control) should not be allowed to do so because they are a bit overexcited. How frightening for the child. If you can't control your dog you should not have it or inflict it on others.

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 05/02/2024 15:37

There’s a woman who lives locally to me and who walks I assume an XL bully as it’s muzzled. She can control the dog to a minimum but it pulls a lot, at least it’s muzzled.

That’s not counting the young teenage looking couple with a huge dog similar to an XL bully and a young baby and the men who look Eastern European and exercise similar huge dogs similar to XL bullys only in tennis courts that I’ve seen in my local park. Not seen either of these out lately.

A few years ago I was driving with a friend past a corner shop next to station (south London) and l saw 2 dogs fighting, one looked Staffy/pit bull type. The other dog just looked Staffy. The first dog’s owner was beating it over the head with a metal shopping basket trying to get it off the other dog which wasn’t or couldn’t fight back and the other dog was really going for it, and I overheard the shopkeeper who came out say “a fighting dog and a not fighting dog are clashing”. A man walked by who I asked to help, turned out to be an off duty policeman returning off his shift at the local police station and he said “I’d get involved but I don’t have my stab vest on” and walked off suggesting I call 911. We drove off as I didn’t want to get attacked, but I know in both estates near there they have fighting dogs, you see the owners walking them early in the morning and on the leads. No one lists free kittens for sale either in the area. I’d love to help or stop it but don’t fancy being targeted myself and attacked. I have reported the attack I saw anonymously to the RSPCA.

My DB used to have a Staffy/pit in the 90s which didn’t fight but he got offers a lot from dubious people asking to buy the dog or arrange fights as he lived in a sort of rough area.

It definitely is down to the dogs’ owners how the dogs behave and less down to the dog. The dogs don’t have lock jaws but do like chewing a lot, more so than some other breeds. DB used to let him hang by his jaws from a tyre in the garden as he loved it (he wasn’t training him as his NDN thought!). I think it’s the pure strength and build of the dogs which can be their danger especially with owners who can’t or won’t control them. But some Staffies I know won’t fight or refuse to fight so are abandoned.

Everanewbie · 05/02/2024 15:45

I honestly think that there is a case for these XL bullies to be treated similarly to knives. If they are out of control they should be treated like an offensive weapon and the owner jailed as if it were a fire arm or knife. I love dogs, even feared dogs such as Dobermans, Rottweilers, Alsatians and Staffies, they are all wonderful dogs if well trained, well exercised and properly looked after. But these XL American Bully things are a different kettle of fish, and bred for traits that make them about as suitable as a pet dog as a zombie knife is to butter toast.

VegetablesFightingToReclaimTheAubergieneEmoji · 05/02/2024 15:45

justaboutdonenow · 05/02/2024 13:52

@VegetablesFightingToReclaimTheAubergieneEmoji oh come on, of course XL bullies exist!

They are recognised by the UKC, have their own registries that hold conformation shows, they have breed standards & until recently using the words 'XL bully' was plastered all over breeders' ads was considered a good marketing strategy for their litters.

There are traceable pedigrees in the public domain, they have been closely linebred for multiple generations.

All this backpedalling is just a pathetic attempt to deny accountability.

They don’t exist as a breed they are a “type”. Which is why the law uses their physical descriptions. Which means lots of lab crosses have been caught up with it.

I don’t disagree with the ban, it’s just poorly implemented.
what will happen is the same as always has, people will move onto breeding them smaller so they get round the “type” description. It’s like illegal and legal highs. They just tweak the formula to get round it.

Morecatsarebetter · 05/02/2024 15:46

BoobyDazzler · 05/02/2024 07:41

The owner looks like your typical XL bully owning scrote too, doesn’t he.

Mmm “Drill rapper” ie unemployed

Millie890 · 05/02/2024 15:46

As the Mum of a 6 month old and a Dog lover (I have a well trained Terrier) I hate to say it but these Dogs need to be destroyed. There are quite a few of them around my area (never muzzled and often unleashed) and when I take my Daughter out in her pushchair, if we are going through the park I clip her buggy in so she's facing me because I worry that one of these horrible monstrosites will jump up and bite her. XL bullies are manufactured, killing machines, they're not proper Dogs and the owners are always skiprats who look like should be in jail for something even if it's not Dog related.

jasflowers · 05/02/2024 15:48

Puzzledandpissedoff · 05/02/2024 15:00

Which is why we need to go from a Banned list to an Allow list

That sounds a pretty good idea, jasflowers, but it's still not going to stop knuckledraggers acquiring the banned version; in fact to this kind of mindset it could make them even more desirable

Like so many I agree about what these blasted owners should/shouldn't be doing, but the issue seems to be what happens when (inevitably) they don't

People who don't obey the rules would have to be given very harsh sentences, esp the breeders.
I'd suggest a min of 10years, with no parole for ownership, breeders would be subject to life.

But like everything else and it is a huge failing with so much in the UK, there is little enforcement of the law.

These dogs, according to the daughter, were reported by the deceased woman to the Police, who presumably did nothing?

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 05/02/2024 15:50

I personally think most fighting type ones or those used for them should be banned. Come on, we know their owners are criminals or low lifes, who probably do all sorts of illegal activities either at a low level or higher up. Yet police and authorities refuse to clamp down on these types. Why not?

Millie890 · 05/02/2024 15:51

Well said! If you have a Dog you know is dangerous and you do nothing to keep the public safe from it then with cases like this it should be a Manslaughter charge as a minimum.

MalcolmTuckersSwearBox · 05/02/2024 15:53

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 05/02/2024 15:37

There’s a woman who lives locally to me and who walks I assume an XL bully as it’s muzzled. She can control the dog to a minimum but it pulls a lot, at least it’s muzzled.

That’s not counting the young teenage looking couple with a huge dog similar to an XL bully and a young baby and the men who look Eastern European and exercise similar huge dogs similar to XL bullys only in tennis courts that I’ve seen in my local park. Not seen either of these out lately.

A few years ago I was driving with a friend past a corner shop next to station (south London) and l saw 2 dogs fighting, one looked Staffy/pit bull type. The other dog just looked Staffy. The first dog’s owner was beating it over the head with a metal shopping basket trying to get it off the other dog which wasn’t or couldn’t fight back and the other dog was really going for it, and I overheard the shopkeeper who came out say “a fighting dog and a not fighting dog are clashing”. A man walked by who I asked to help, turned out to be an off duty policeman returning off his shift at the local police station and he said “I’d get involved but I don’t have my stab vest on” and walked off suggesting I call 911. We drove off as I didn’t want to get attacked, but I know in both estates near there they have fighting dogs, you see the owners walking them early in the morning and on the leads. No one lists free kittens for sale either in the area. I’d love to help or stop it but don’t fancy being targeted myself and attacked. I have reported the attack I saw anonymously to the RSPCA.

My DB used to have a Staffy/pit in the 90s which didn’t fight but he got offers a lot from dubious people asking to buy the dog or arrange fights as he lived in a sort of rough area.

It definitely is down to the dogs’ owners how the dogs behave and less down to the dog. The dogs don’t have lock jaws but do like chewing a lot, more so than some other breeds. DB used to let him hang by his jaws from a tyre in the garden as he loved it (he wasn’t training him as his NDN thought!). I think it’s the pure strength and build of the dogs which can be their danger especially with owners who can’t or won’t control them. But some Staffies I know won’t fight or refuse to fight so are abandoned.

You were in South London and the off duty policeman suggested you call 911?

SicParvisMagna · 05/02/2024 15:53

I live in Clacton, so just down the road from Jaywick. Brooklands, where this happened is one of the most deprived areas in not just the UK but I'm sure I read somewhere in the whole of Europe. The lady who went back inside after hearing screaming? Probably used to it. Whenever Jaywick is in the local news it's all "ohhh they're all salt of the earth that lot. Wouldn't hurt a fly". Total and utter bollocks. Crime, drugs etc is rife. Police don't really go there unless they absolutely have to. The whole place needs bulldozing.
It is a hell hole. A lot of the houses were built as holiday chalets in the 50's. They were not designed for living in. Some don't even have basic amenities. They are also tiny. I'm talking glorifed garden sheds. The idea of having that many dogs in there is horrific, let alone ones as big as XL bullies. The scrote who owned these is my age. I'm not sure if he's local enough to have gone to the local secondary schools. I don't recognise him but I do recognise his attitude. His sneer. Lots of blokes this way have it. I'll be honest the amount of staffs and bullie type dogs down this way I'm actually amazed it hasn't happened sooner.
That poor poor 11 year old.

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 05/02/2024 15:54

MalcolmTuckersSwearBox · 05/02/2024 15:53

You were in South London and the off duty policeman suggested you call 911?

Show quote history

Yes I just told you! He said he had just come off duty and didn’t have his stab vest on and if he did have it on, he would’ve stepped in.

Sounds like you don’t believe me but it’s true! Even the shopkeeper didn’t want to get involved.

I’m not naming the area but it sits cheek by jowl with what used to be a deprived area but has got gentrified in last 15 years or so. So it’s not as rough as eg heart of Brixton or Stockwell.

Morecatsarebetter · 05/02/2024 15:55

A bloke passed me with his Bully dog muzzled. I looked at the dog. The bloke moaned that there was nothing wrong with the dog and if it wasn’t for Rishi Sumak the dog wouldn’t be wearing one. I thought I’m glad someone’s attempting supervision of these beasts because the bloke didn’t look or sound the full ticket to me. That’s who you’ve got deciding it’s a good idea to have one of these dogs. Morons

jasflowers · 05/02/2024 15:56

SicParvisMagna · 05/02/2024 15:53

I live in Clacton, so just down the road from Jaywick. Brooklands, where this happened is one of the most deprived areas in not just the UK but I'm sure I read somewhere in the whole of Europe. The lady who went back inside after hearing screaming? Probably used to it. Whenever Jaywick is in the local news it's all "ohhh they're all salt of the earth that lot. Wouldn't hurt a fly". Total and utter bollocks. Crime, drugs etc is rife. Police don't really go there unless they absolutely have to. The whole place needs bulldozing.
It is a hell hole. A lot of the houses were built as holiday chalets in the 50's. They were not designed for living in. Some don't even have basic amenities. They are also tiny. I'm talking glorifed garden sheds. The idea of having that many dogs in there is horrific, let alone ones as big as XL bullies. The scrote who owned these is my age. I'm not sure if he's local enough to have gone to the local secondary schools. I don't recognise him but I do recognise his attitude. His sneer. Lots of blokes this way have it. I'll be honest the amount of staffs and bullie type dogs down this way I'm actually amazed it hasn't happened sooner.
That poor poor 11 year old.

Edited

TBF according to news reports, some locals armed with spades, tried getting into the house.
I wonder how many of us would get between 2 XLs and their victim? a man recently died doing just that.

Mrsjayy · 05/02/2024 15:57

I watched a programme years ago about Jaywick it was either presented by Ross Kemp or Danny Dyer anyway people were basically living in a run down pontins and the "salt of the earths" were terrifying!

Ponoka7 · 05/02/2024 15:57

@jasflowers she didn't report them to the police, just said to the owner that they were dangerous. The whole family knew that he had illegally bred puppies and was going to sell them, including the victim. As sad as it is, she was partly responsible and better one of the adults than the children, or someone outside of the family.