Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Grandmother killed by 2 XL bullies

584 replies

ABCDEFGHIJK123456 · 05/02/2024 07:36

Grandmother killed by 2 XL bullies whilst apparently separating fighting bully pups.

Longer jail sentences, minimum of 5 years for owners of dogs that kill people for not controlling them.

Aibu?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
25
daffodilandtulip · 05/02/2024 13:37

If your dog weighs at least half your weight, you aren't talking your dog for a walk, they are taking you for one.

Indeed. There's a woman near us with an XL. She's always walking it in the kids park. She stops and tells you to go around her because she can't move him over. She actually admits that she can't move it. What chance would any of those kids have if it ran off from her? (I haven't seen it since the rules came in, so wonder what she will do.)

kitsuneghost · 05/02/2024 13:38

MalcolmTuckersSwearBox · 05/02/2024 13:35

In an ideal world, yes, but that would be so expensive and difficult to administer in the real world that it would pretty much be impossible.

Yes it would take a lot of time to get assessed (5-10 years maybe) but if you want a dog so badly you will need to wait. would also give people more time to be sure it is the right option.
Also a limit of dogs owned at one time means reassessments could be put in place.

Babsexxx · 05/02/2024 13:39

Yes they are very aggressive I have one that’s constantly outside the school gates each morning seemed extremely friendly owner had lead no muzzle it came bounding up to me, me being a dog lover didn’t hesitate to go in for a stroke it went for me! There must be something in the red gene mutation as they are far more susceptible to aggression my auntie worked as a vet in the 90s when they where constantly seeing red cockers in for rage syndrome!

oakleaffy · 05/02/2024 13:41

jasflowers · 05/02/2024 08:56

I did, the pp said the woman tried to separate the fighting puppies and they turned on her, as any dog would do.

Edited

Wouldn’t happen with non fighting types of dog.
Nice pups don’t fight with each other so hard that the owner says to part them with a broom
. Non fighting breeds / types responsibly bred would all have had new “vetted” homes booked long before sperm met egg.
They’d be off to their new loving homes at 9 weeks.
This idiot was trying to offload these fighting dogs at £500
Zero takers.

Pits and pit cross pupsare notorious for fighting to the death.
Sometimes the mother kills them.

That woman who took on a “ fat “ XL that produced 8 XL puppies is going to have plenty of sibling battles on her hands .
It’s all fun and go fund me’s til it’s not.

kitsuneghost · 05/02/2024 13:42

Whatayear2023 · 05/02/2024 13:37

Sorry to ask but I've read artivle twice and still not sure.... the lady who died the dogs were her family members as her grandson was at house so sons daughters house?

The gran's daughter was the boy's mum
She died and so 11 year now with his dad (the scrote). Grans son-in-law
Gran was visiting to see her grandson.

Emotionalsupportviper · 05/02/2024 13:43

MalcolmTuckersSwearBox · 05/02/2024 13:33

Which side of the debate do you stand on, sususudio?

It was me that mentioned collies, I did so because they are a good example of innate breed characteristics/behaviours being expressed in pet line dogs. There are others (Jack Russell's digging, retrievers carrying things in their mouths, beagles and their difficulties with recall...). Why people can accept breed characteristics in some breeds but absolutely deny them in others baffles me.

A lot of the trouble now is also people buying working-type dogs from working parents, which have been specifically and intensively bred to do a particular job, and then expecting them to fit into a 9-to-5 lifestyle, left at home alone a large part of the day with nothing to do, and then not properly exercised and occupied even at the weekend because the owners want a "rest".

Dogs in this situation quite literally become insane.

There are "pet" strains of many working breeds now where the instincts that have been bred in for centuries are bit dampened by selective breeding- if you want a border collie, get a pet strain one* - don't go to a farm and get one that's been bred to be on its paws running about after sheep for a solid 12 hours, and using its initiative when it needs to. Dogs like that find pet home very hard to cope with even when they have company all day and are properly occupied.

*However still expect it to need a heck of a lot of exercise and to be mentally stimulated. They are energetic, clever dogs - you can blunt these instincts little, but nor erase them.

Edited for spelling

WhatWhereWho · 05/02/2024 13:44

Babsexxx · 05/02/2024 13:05

YANBU I am absolutely sick to death of seeing all these unnecessary deaths that are completely avoidable! I am however worried sick for scotland I joined some xl bully sites on sm just purely to see what was going on and what all these idiots where going to do keep them or get rid and the bus loads of them going up to Scotland was shockingggg!

Then not to mention the huge fallouts from people lying about the dogs temperaments! Plenty of upset from original owners pissing and crying because they have had there dogs returned even tied up to there front gardens etc it is absolutely ludicrous!!!!

Ive got a bloke on my sm who regularly updates photos of his unleashed unmuzzled xl on walks! Like he is begging to be reported! Maybe these idiots are actually waking up to them having these killing machines and low key hoping they will be reported/dog removed!

Have you reported him though? Or just ignoring it and criticising him on here?

Emotionalsupportviper · 05/02/2024 13:44

WhatWhereWho · 05/02/2024 13:44

Have you reported him though? Or just ignoring it and criticising him on here?

I was wondering, too.

oakleaffy · 05/02/2024 13:46

Babsexxx · 05/02/2024 13:39

Yes they are very aggressive I have one that’s constantly outside the school gates each morning seemed extremely friendly owner had lead no muzzle it came bounding up to me, me being a dog lover didn’t hesitate to go in for a stroke it went for me! There must be something in the red gene mutation as they are far more susceptible to aggression my auntie worked as a vet in the 90s when they where constantly seeing red cockers in for rage syndrome!

There is indeed mention of a gene mutation in XL’s for sudden rage aggression.
Red Cocker Rage was mentioned in same article.

SgtJuneAckland · 05/02/2024 13:47

I think a lot of people here have never been to Jaywick, I used to have to for work and you definitely need your wits about you.
I understand certain breeds are more dangerous than others, but banning them won't stop the morons. There will be loads of idiots around that area breeding dogs for money. 'jaywick sands' is almost a shanty town tiny little hut type properties, some of which didn't even have mains power until relatively recently. That area and others need proper policing and intervention, it's no different to a sink hole estate by the sea.
It'll be another breed next, it was pit bulls in the nineties, then staffies ,.now xl bullies. Through work we are seeing an increase in cane corsos, they are used as a threat/status symbol, the owners have no interest in properly training them and they get a much lesser sentence if their dog attacks someone than us they stab them.

Emotionalsupportviper · 05/02/2024 13:48

oakleaffy · 05/02/2024 13:46

There is indeed mention of a gene mutation in XL’s for sudden rage aggression.
Red Cocker Rage was mentioned in same article.

Could you ink the article @oakleaffy - I must have missed it being posted and I can't find it.

If this gene mutation is present in XL bullies, then there should absolutely be a blanket cull. They are the canine equivalent of a nuclear weapon.

Babsexxx · 05/02/2024 13:48

Just criticising him on here!! Of course I’ve reported it as he lives very close and I wouldn’t want it near me in my area there is very little being done to clamp down on this issue they don’t seem to give a shit there is a pittbull outside the kids school every day several officers have walked straight past it not to mention the amount of traffic wardens etc! Some councils just are not taking it as seriously unfortunately.

Emotionalsupportviper · 05/02/2024 13:49

Thank you @Babsexxx .

The thought of one of these anywhere near young children is terrifying.

Babsexxx · 05/02/2024 13:51

Extremely and our council doesn’t give a shit we are one of them that council homes are still fine with them being housed in social housing and no serious attacks yet…..

OhmygodDont · 05/02/2024 13:51

I’m not seen our local Xl puppy for a few weeks. I wonder if despite lead and muzzle walking the owner decided to hand it over rather than run the risk.

Xls in jaywick surprises nobody let’s face it. Poor child losing his mum and his granny left with that idiot of a want to be as a father.

justaboutdonenow · 05/02/2024 13:52

@VegetablesFightingToReclaimTheAubergieneEmoji oh come on, of course XL bullies exist!

They are recognised by the UKC, have their own registries that hold conformation shows, they have breed standards & until recently using the words 'XL bully' was plastered all over breeders' ads was considered a good marketing strategy for their litters.

There are traceable pedigrees in the public domain, they have been closely linebred for multiple generations.

All this backpedalling is just a pathetic attempt to deny accountability.

VeterinaryCareAssistant · 05/02/2024 13:54

bintybooboo · 05/02/2024 11:59

I have now read that this woman, and may she rest in peace, had been trying to separate two puppies from 'fighting' with a broom. The mother's instinct to protect her young no doubt kicked in, hence a tragedy.

Why on earth do we think that dogs should somehow understand what seems to be 'expected' of them these days. They are no longer allowed to be dogs - children are allowed to crawl all over them, we stick them in handbags, dress them up, but we never allow them to be 'dogs' with instincts, not taking time to make proper educated decisions about dog ownership. It's like if someone went up to your child and hit it, you would be expected to stand back and not retaliate, because 'violence' would not be the answer. Most of us would attack and viciously at someone who hurt our child. If you did, you would be shot. But dogs are not allowed to have this instinct. It would be good if someone could tell us how to get rid of it, but they can't. Shoving puppies around with a broom is an act of aggression, and the dog retaliated. If that is indeed what happened.

I find the daily mail type outrage on here ridiculous. 'They all need to go'; they all need to be euthanised, shoot them all, owners of them are 'scum' 'thick' and the like.

When you manage to shoot every xl bully in the country what exactly do you think those who never take responsibility for their dogs - whatever size they are, whatever breed they are - are going to do? They're going to move on to the next breed so until you sort out the people who use these dogs as status symbols, protection in drug rackets and the like, its never ending. The human cost will go on. But, hey, we shot all the xl bullies, so that should make you feel better. It is always going to be the responsible owners who bear the brunt of idiots like the owner in this instance. You will find, I'm sure, that most dog owners and particularly bull breed owners absolutely abhor owners such as this, who has done nothing but brought many many innocent dogs into BSL.

A dog has been shot because it did what it was supposed to do, protect its young, a woman is dead, the owner of the dog allowed his son to witness an horrific incident, the emergency services have had to deal with it, and all because the owner wanted to make money. He flouted the law as it stands at this time; he refused to conform at all in any way. He didn't care about the dogs, that he allowed to be in this situation, he didn't care about his son, and he definitely didn't care about the woman, and I believe he was the one who said she should use a broom to stop whatever was going on. A backyard breeder displaying the most ignorant traits possible, who wilfully put that woman in a dangerous place. That man is the one you should be blaming. It is his fault, and only his fault.

This man needs to be charged with manslaughter; he needs to be banned from ever having a dog. He needs to go to prison for a very long time. However, instead of being charged with manslaughter, I think, he has, at this time, only been arrested for offences under the Dangerous Dogs Act, so tell me again that government cares about the people who have been victims? That they care enough about YOU to prevent these things from happening. They don't, but Joe Public and the media should, and efforts should be put into wanting the law changed so that we can deal with this owner, and the like, and take owners and breeders like this off our streets.

Agree with this 100%

VeterinaryCareAssistant · 05/02/2024 13:55

ShoePalaver · 05/02/2024 11:45

Lots of dogs are aggressive at the vets. Not nice obviously but it doesn't reflect what they are like as family pets. At the vets they are scared and sometimes in pain or ill, being subjected to unwanted poking and prodding and having their warning signals ignored.

Agree with you lots of retrievers are aggressive though, I don't think they are a good pet for homes with children. Labradors are better

Thank you for mansplaining.

Doris86 · 05/02/2024 13:55

MeMyBooksAndMyCats · 05/02/2024 07:44

And people still claim they are "family friendly" dogs. They may be friendly but any dog can snap, but their bite/jaws are way to strong to be allowed really. Should be a ban on breeding them so the breed dies out quickly.

There is a ban on breeding them in the UK. Part of the new legislation that was recently introduced.

CantDealwithChristmas · 05/02/2024 13:56

ThePeaAndThePrincess · 05/02/2024 12:15

@CantDealwithChristmas yep. They are wolves, but worse in some cases like this "breed".

We need to come down much harder on all of this. People's pets should not inconvenience others in any way, let alone put them at physical risk. That's so obviously unacceptable that it's baffling anybody thinks there should be any kind of trade off here. Why should somebody else have their life impacted in any way by your pet?

There needs to be a very strict licencing regime for any dog owners. It will need to be expensive, requiring certified training, full enclosure all around the property with double barriers i.e. a very tall, robust wall or fence in addition to the doors etc (the poor man who was killed not long ago was killed by dogs that escaped through a window). Regular checks on this. No animals over a weight that a small child could not fight them off. No dangerous animals in a home where children live otherwise either dog removed and PTS or child removed into care of responsible adults. No dogs off lead in public places at all, only on fenced-in (registered througj dog licence) private property or in registered enclosed dog exercise fields. Dog licence fees to be set at a level to properly monitor and enforce all of this.

Enough is enough. The anthropormorphism is ridiculous. These are animals and if they pose any danger to humans then they should not be in human spaces.

Dogs are wolves in the same way as humans are chimpanzees.

Actually we're closer to chimps genetically than dogs are to wolves.

Humans to macaques, let's say.

cerisepanther73 · 05/02/2024 13:58

Same old story

Nothing effective is done about this disturbing 😳 issue..

oakleaffy · 05/02/2024 13:59

For those who think you can ''Love'' the genetics out of a Pit/XL Cross... here is a Pit breeder {image cropped to avoid grimness}

easylikeasundaymorn · 05/02/2024 14:02

RicePuddingWithCinnamon · 05/02/2024 08:15

I knew the ban wouldn’t stop deaths and attacks. The chavs that own them won’t follow the law.
Someone was selling XL puppies on gumtree last week, I reported it to gumtree and they do nothing. I have seen XL dogs off the lead and not muzzled in the last couple weeks. I despair.

So did you report either of these to the police? They're more likely to take action than gumtree!

Ravensky · 05/02/2024 14:03

Sadly I do think a strict, expensive licence will be the future which means decent responsible dog owners get penalised for the actions of the few morons who frankly don't give a shit about anything but themselves.

Should a licence be brought in, it will be expensive to cover the cost of monitoring/visits/admin. Decent dog owners who can afford to pay it, will pay it. Those that can't or don't want to pay it will rehome/abandon their dogs or flout the law and continue to own aggressive dogs but try to keep them under wraps.

If it was stringent enough, it would hopefully reduce the numbers of these types of dog in public.

It's the same over and over. Decent folk would have to be punished because the likes of the AliG wanker who owned these latest dogs don't give a shit about anyone else nor their own children clearly. Only about themselves.

Well done to you asshats that just have to own dogs capable of killing adult humans. You might just change this country into one that means owning a dog is something only the wealthy can do. Well done, bravo 👏👏

Bishopsgirl · 05/02/2024 14:06

@oakleaffy OMG that is absolutely horrific! I didn't know this about the puppies actually killing each other and the mother sometimes killing the puppies as mentioned in your previous post.