Tables have turned and son refusing to help/get involved

[dietirnbruqueen]

when my son was in p6 he was falsely accused of bullying another child in the class. The boy made up claims of things my son had said and done and it went on for a period of time.

it was a difficult time for my son and very stressful to constantly have to maintain his innocence. The boy in question had emotional problems and was very sensitive to everything. His mother, instead of teaching him resilience, pandered to everything he said and did.

anyway, it transpired that the boy was jealous of my son and it came out that he’d made up all the claims. There wasn’t much if any punishment for the boy (in school) because of aforementioned emotional issues/very sensitive.

my son steered well clear of him for the rest of primary school and didn’t interact with with him as he didn’t trust him.

anyway, he’s now in secondary school and this boy is being bullied by a group of boys in the year. I don’t know the ins and outs of it but the mother has messaged me to say that my son is in a couple of classes and may have witnessed the bullying and can he vouch that it’s happening. my son is categorically not involved in bullying this boy btw and there’s no question of that.

my son has completely refused to be drawn on the subject. He’s said privately to me that this boy made his life hell and he has no interest in getting involved in anything to do with him. My son is quite quiet but gets on well with most folk but he is digging his heels in here and just says “Couldn’t tell you.” When he’s asked.

I hate the thought of anyone being bullied but I can also see my son’s point that he doesn’t want any involvement with this boy.

wwyd?

The question is whether they are the right values.

Do you want your children to stand up when they see someone being victimised or abused, or shrug their shoulders and say "nothing to do with me" ? How do you want them to behave as adults ?

What happens when it is your child being bullied and someone else decides to stand by and do nothing ? Is that acceptable ?

Bullying "works" and goes on for a long time often because people are too scared to speak out, they are afraid of the consequences. If it is to be stopped, everyone needs to believe in that and take appropriate action when they see it happening.

Well done to both you and your son for not getting involved. @ConciseQueen 's reply was perfect.

This. This is a child we’re talking about..

Who's karna 🤣

Forgiveness is a virtue but lets face it one that many adults struggle with it, especially as forgiveness is not always appreciated.

Kids need to develop a sense of nous and your son seems to be coping well with assessing a situation that is possibly even more complex than has been explained to you.

With ds's and XXX's history he cannot "vouch" for his honesty in bullying allegations, but obviously if he personally witnessed anything and was asked by the school he would tell them factually what was witnessed. I have asked ds and he has said he has not witnessed any bullying. Hope you manage to get it sorted out.

OP's son was accused of bullying by this other boy who made his life a misery until admitting it was all made up.

In those circumstances, no, I don't think he needs to take any action at all.

@CJsGoldfish "Yes, this thread is just awful. The absolute glee that a teen, with emotional issues is being bullied."

What makes you assume that the OP's son's former bully has emotional issues?! Not all kids have emotional issues - some kids are just little shits. Who is to say he even is being bullied, as he has form for lying about it in the past?

Yes, it's quite odd. Which is another reason not to take this situation at face value.

Yes, that's a fair question and I'd also grapple with the ethics of it (just privately for myself as I strongly feel OP made the best decision by supporting her son's choice especially with so many unknowns).

Something that stands out to me is that he long ago made a firm decision to stay away from anything to do with this child, and he's stuck to his decision. That is also part of his value system.

What a lovely boy you have🥰
quite right I would be super proud if this was my sons response after what happened in primary. Karma truly is a Bi*ch 😁

Personally if my child was witness to any bullying no matter who the child is I would want them to provide a statement to school to that effect. Children make mistakes, the child was either 9 or 10 years old, they don't know the impact of their words and actions.

Karma is a bitch and her son is now being bullied, it doesn't mean your son should stand by and watch it happen if he has. Imagine if in turn your son gets physically attacked and the only witness is this child, would you want them to be the bigger person or not?

Your son has made a decision and you should respect that decision.
He has set his own boundaries for situations.
You should also be proud that he has not joined in with the bullying - if it's taking place - because it could be so easy for him to do this and get his own back on this child for what he did to your son

Why should he have to vouch?

This is a problem for the school / the mother & her son.
Maybe the new school have seen his file where he made accusations before and therefore they're not trusting her son's version of events this time?

This and my son is in a couple of classes and may have witnessed the bullying and can he vouch that it’s happening. and this here doesn't actually sound like the dm is asking if it has happened just that she wants ops son to say it has? Which may have been the case before when the ds was lied about. And all the 'oh poor him there may be emotional reasons why he bullied ops son, does that mean you agree that some people have an excuse to bully?

Tbh, unless your DS is the only witness to the purported bullying, I’d respect his decision not to get involved. From what you’ve shared, it doesn’t look as though he personally has much to offer by way of witnessing anyway.

I think, I’d ignore the text from the mother unless she follows up. In that case I’d simply reply ‘DS not seen anything useful and would understandably prefer, given his history with your son, to remain uninvolved. Trust the school is being supportive. Good luck’.

There is a lot of talk about karma here, not sure it helps. From what I understand, your son is not coming at it from that direction just from self preservation and fear that helping another kid who he knows to be liar will bring him grief. Nobody knows what the odds are on that but sounds like your son has smelt trouble, may be he cannot put it into words but he knows what he feels. These are exactly the skills he needs to get by at school.

All I would say is that if he is specifically asked by the school if he has witnessed anything, and he has, then he should not lie.

But if he simply stays out of this boy's way and doesn't see anything, even if he has an idea something is going on, then it's fine to say that.

"In that case I’d simply reply ‘DS not seen anything useful and would understandably prefer, given his history with your son, to remain uninvolved. "

I would not even put the last bit it in just in case the other parent thinks it is revenge.

I am an EXTREMELY vengeful person by nature.

But I would first have a talk with my son to see if I can determine whether it's unmistakeable, serious, horrific bullying (eg physical, or writing slurs all over his stuff, etc).

If it's something that could really harm a human's life (or even make him take his own life), I would want my son to show basic humanity. But just through a neutral, distant, factual statement – wouldn't want him to get caught up in interviews etc.

If it's a bit more ambiguous, I would stay out due to previous ill feeling, but also because who knows how credible the boy is this time.

There must be other witnesses. It isn’t reasonable for an adult to expect your son to be her son’s champion when her own behavioural choices regarding her son, her lack of insight into her influence on his character development, and her failure to notice his mental health issues, has put your own son’s mental health and reputation at risk for such a long time. It’s great (and fortunate) that your son has come out the other side of it feeling strong enough to set boundaries.

The school has an anti-bullying policy, and it is the school’s responsibility to implement it. Let your son make his own choices about what is best for him.

If your son was in a couple of classes and may have witnessed the bullying then other kids will have too, kids who do not have a history with this lad and no disrespect intended will actually make better witnesses than your son. In these sort of disputes it is common to ask all involved if there is history involved and discount or diminish the opinions of those that do. Legal courts certainly work that way and the principle is a sound one wherever applied.

wow, what an ''ask'' from the mother of the bullied again boy. @dietirnbruqueen your son has earned a hall pass here, not his problem.

That said, secondary school is so tough. Standing up for somebody is tough. Sometimes as an adult I inadvertently ''shamed'' aggressors if you like by standing up for somebody and then they turn on you too. You can be brave, and the reward for being brave is not necessarily a happy ending where everybody gets to skip merrily to the locker in safety and peace. Sometimes you stand up for the underdog but your own status isn't high enough and then they turn on you for thinking you're morally superior to them. You were! but, spoiler, that triggers them.

MN has more than its fair share of holier-than-thous.

It doesn't bother me that he "kid gets what he deserves".

What I (and most others) think is important is the OP's son isn't faced to engage mentally and emotionally with someone who made his life hell.

To have to do so will make it much harder for him to get over that original bullying.

very sensitive to everything. His mother, instead of teaching him resilience, pandered to everything he said and did.

So what were the incidents where he was too sensitive and required more resilience?