Tables have turned and son refusing to help/get involved

[dietirnbruqueen]

when my son was in p6 he was falsely accused of bullying another child in the class. The boy made up claims of things my son had said and done and it went on for a period of time.

it was a difficult time for my son and very stressful to constantly have to maintain his innocence. The boy in question had emotional problems and was very sensitive to everything. His mother, instead of teaching him resilience, pandered to everything he said and did.

anyway, it transpired that the boy was jealous of my son and it came out that he’d made up all the claims. There wasn’t much if any punishment for the boy (in school) because of aforementioned emotional issues/very sensitive.

my son steered well clear of him for the rest of primary school and didn’t interact with with him as he didn’t trust him.

anyway, he’s now in secondary school and this boy is being bullied by a group of boys in the year. I don’t know the ins and outs of it but the mother has messaged me to say that my son is in a couple of classes and may have witnessed the bullying and can he vouch that it’s happening. my son is categorically not involved in bullying this boy btw and there’s no question of that.

my son has completely refused to be drawn on the subject. He’s said privately to me that this boy made his life hell and he has no interest in getting involved in anything to do with him. My son is quite quiet but gets on well with most folk but he is digging his heels in here and just says “Couldn’t tell you.” When he’s asked.

I hate the thought of anyone being bullied but I can also see my son’s point that he doesn’t want any involvement with this boy.

wwyd?

I’m torn. Half of me would want my son in that situation to do the Bigger Thing, but then I remember the absolutely vicious little bully who made my life a misery at school, and think, no, I wouldn’t lift a finger to help her, or anyone like her.

That's a very high minded attitude. I think in real life, we all need to distance ourselves from our bullies, especially at a young age when forgiveness might equate in part to weakness, to opening ourselves to more bullying.

There is a resilience in staying out of this. In reality, school kids can be pack-animal brutes and if OP's son's ex-bully's current bullies see him standing up for someone who used to make his life hell, they might pile in on him next. No one needs that at a time in life when there is so little autonomy. He can't choose not to go to this school, not to face these undesirables every day. A bit of self-protection is not a moral compromise, it's a choice.

I think you need to leave the decision up to your son.

But you do have an opportunity to educate him in being a better person.

I would try to get him to show empathy. How he would have felt if the tables were turned and nobody had helped him when he was accused of bullying.

How karma sometimes feels great. But what feels better is being the bigger person.

How not letting other peoples actions like how the boy behaved earlier define how he behaves.

How bullying shouldn't be tolerated no matter what the circumstances, and if he believes in that then he needs to support the victims of bullying.

How forgiveness should be a more valued quality than revenge.

You shouldn't force him to change his mind. But you should be able to persuade him and if you do he will be a better person for it.

For all you saying OP son should get involved, what does he say to the school.

I don't want to be involved because X boy lied about me bulling him in P6 and I suffered at his hands for 6 months for example before X boy told the truth. And I do not want to risk going through that again.

How is that going to help X boy because it will make the school doubt as to whether he is actually being bullied.

I'm not proud of this, but I feel the same. DS2 who has SEN was bullied by a teacher who also let pupil bullying of him go unchecked. If she was drowning I'm not 100% sure I'd stop and help. She made her behaviour choices, I make mine.

OP you say this child 'was very sensitive to everything'. What exactly do you mean by that? Do you mean that your son was saying things to him and he was taking it the wrong way or he was more upset by things then would be considered reasonable? What exactly was going on for this child as they sound pretty vulnerable. Were they really struggling with friendships? What do you mean by 'emotional problems'? Is the child autistic?

What exactly is happening to this child now? Bullying is awful and shouldn't be happening to anyone, even kids that aren't that nice. I wouldn't get involved with the mother - tell her the school need to handle it. And I wouldn't force my ds to get in the middle of it.

But if it is true then I as the adult in all this would be telling the school that they need to keep an eye on x,y and z as they are treating the child badly.

karma.not nice is it when the boots on the other foot, well done done to your son, i was bullied badley at school, then years later the bully came for a job where i worked, my boss asked did anyone know them, my boss said from my reaction he knew something , so the bully did not get the job

would try to get him to show empathy. How he would have felt if the tables were turned and nobody had helped him when he was accused of bullying

Dd was bullied, she didn’t sleep, couldn’t eat, self esteem on the floor - the damage in real and it’s painful.

I have no sympathy for the girls that bullied DD - I would not help -

Yes bullying is awful - the bullies end up friendless and struggle as adults - that is not my problem.

I have spend years undoing the pain they caused.

It’s not about stepping up and being the bigger person after years of putting thing right there is NO way on earth DD would ever be involved with these girls issues - not over my dead body.

I take your point but like I said up thread I feel like the lad is already being true to his own values by refusing to participate in bullying (if bullying is actually happening). It would be so easy to get revenge that way but he"s decided against it and to me that shows a stronger moral fibre than many adults.

Yes, this thread is just awful. The absolute glee that a teen, with emotional issues is being bullied.

I'd go even further and say that seeing the attitude and condoning of bullying on this thread goes a long way to understanding how children actually become bullies.The absolute vitriol to a kid that the OP acknowledged has issues who did something as a child is really hard to read. It's like a mob.

Your son spent years suffering at the hand of this bully (which is what he is, even if the bullying was mental/emotional rather than physical)
I mean, wtf is this about? An 'amount of time' in P6 suddenly turns into years of hell.
OPs son was unfairly targeted by this child. Absolutely should not have happened BUT, as 'difficult' as it must have been for the OPs son to have to deny the allegations, no where has the OP said this childs word was given weight. I mean, for all we know everyone else also knew this child had issues due to what the OP decided was shit parenting and her son's life wasn't 'hell' at all 🤷‍♀️

I do think the boy is actually being bullied now and it’s not a made up allegation. It’s a shame and I abhor bullying but I think protecting my son is also important in this situation
Protecting him from what exactly?
If he is witnessing bullying and quite happy to let it happen then how is he any better than the bullies? It's just clear that all he's been taught is that bullying IS ok if it's not happening to you and it's someone you feel deserves it. What's a little payback after all? 🤷‍♀️

I'm not talking about MAKING him do anything btw. I actually don't think the mother should be approaching any parent. BUT, if I knew that my kid knew someone was being bullied, I'd be incredibly disappointed if they just shrugged their shoulders and seemed quite ok about it happening.

I would honestly ignore the message, otherwise it will spark something and the boy might start lying again about your son, for not helping him. It's not down to your son to help someone, who treated him badly. Friends help each other out, but that was no friend to your son. If a teacher questions your son he should say, I don't know."

Yes I took it as them being older as the Op says they are in a few of the same classes together so that will be S3 and up

Op back up your son. If he doesn't want to get involved you can't force him and you owe the other mum no favours - did she contact you after the bullying at Primary to apologise?

There is no reason why your DS should need to get involved. If this boy informs his teachers that the bullying occurred, the school is free to ask your DS if he has any comment to add. In your son’s shoes it would be “I can’t remember” … “I don’t know if anyone is bullying, I haven’t been paying attention maybe you can ask some other people in the class”.

Just stay out of it.

Support your son, why on earth should he put himself in the firing line ofr more bullies to help this boy that bullied him. The boy is learning that karma is a bitch, its a life lesson. He'll have to find someone he hasn't made miserable to back him up.
I'm not condoning him being bullied, but sticking up for him could also lead to trouble for your son, protect him.

I think for son to get involved in even eye witness stuff is dragging him into a situation he has a lot of complex emotions about given the past history. This is a high stakes and fearful situation for him to find himself involved with again.

Moral high grounds are fine for fully emotionally developed adults, or those that have not been involved emotionally with the bullied kid, and neither is the case here. Whether to get involved as an adult is our personal decision, you cannot force someone, even a child, to do that unless they’ve witnessed a criminal offence - and even then a lot of adults wouldn’t want to take the “stand” through fear.

The Op needs to understand form her own son, if his own fears and anxiety are primary motivators or revenge. If revenge she needs a whole discussion on why thst isn’t right morally. But none the less she shouldn’t force him, just ask him to think about what revenge will achieve.

If it’s a mix or just fear, I think OP needs to say to her child is that she understands her dc wish to not get involved, and that’s fine for now, but remind him that he needs to remove himself from any contact with the kid, and if he wants to report something ongoing to teachers or you he can do so at any time. Say though, that if bullies are investigated and he is asked specifically by school, or god forbid police, that he must then tell the truth about what he has seen or heard.

Then I’d send a short response to the mum along lines suggested here. Sorry to hear this. My son cannot get involved in this given the previous history between our 2 children, for his own safe guarding. I hope you sort it out soon via the school. Then block her number.

If he says he doesn’t know anything, then that’s all you can say. I wouldn’t make it any more complicated than that.

I would back your son 100% and tell him that you will support his decision.

If he has that backing then he is more likely to feel secure and offer forgiveness himself

It would be great if he did but he should not be pushed into it

School can be tough and I think he has shown he knows what to do to survive.

What a mature response from your son. I’d be very proud

Triggers exist. Bullying is a well-known trigger for MH and physical health issues.

I was bullied relentlessly in school as I had bad skin. I didn't care a jot and I am fine. Another girl in my class was bullied due to her weight and has existing issues decades later. Just hearing the name of her bully is enough to change the course of her day.

So, although we should try to call out/defuse bullying where possible, the OP has every right to feel the need to 'protect' her son. Especially since we parents don't often truly know what our kids/teens feel beneath the surface.

I don't blame your son. He's given this boy a wide berth for a reason. Your job is to support your son. I wouldn't reply to the mother. Also loving the holier than thou comments from people who haven't got a clue.

I'm glad you are supporting your DS in his decision to not become involved. I think he has made the right decision and I am not sure why it seems to be such a big question in the minds of some here.

I was bullied a lot through secondary school. It had stopped by sixth form but for my own mental health I would never have wanted to become embroiled in the issues of my bullies if the tables had been turned (and one of them had once been counted as a friend too).

Your DS is wise to steer clear.

Everyone is obsessed with the child getting what they deserve - this is a highly sensitive kid with emotional problems for gods sake. Then we wonder how kids end up turning into killers.

Honestly, I think there are things it's wise to stay out of.

Your son has already been burned just by association with this other boy. In his position I would just be staying as far away as possible from the whole situation. Your son is the last person who should be drawn into anything involving allegations of bullying regarding this boy. Who knows how the story could get twisted this time?

There are some people who are just a natural source of trouble. They are vulnerable, toxic, a mixture of both. That doesn't mean they shouldn't get help. But the people they have hurt are not the ones who should have to help them.

Your son comes first. Respect his decision and support him. . text her and say your son does not want to get involved and your supporting his decision, he had a very difficult time in primary school and is still dealing with those times and you have to put him first......also make sure you tell your son you totally support his decision.

Why does someone have to vouch that the bullying is taking place? Shouldn't the school be dealing with the complaint as it stands?

Not you DS's problem.