Tables have turned and son refusing to help/get involved

[dietirnbruqueen]

when my son was in p6 he was falsely accused of bullying another child in the class. The boy made up claims of things my son had said and done and it went on for a period of time.

it was a difficult time for my son and very stressful to constantly have to maintain his innocence. The boy in question had emotional problems and was very sensitive to everything. His mother, instead of teaching him resilience, pandered to everything he said and did.

anyway, it transpired that the boy was jealous of my son and it came out that he’d made up all the claims. There wasn’t much if any punishment for the boy (in school) because of aforementioned emotional issues/very sensitive.

my son steered well clear of him for the rest of primary school and didn’t interact with with him as he didn’t trust him.

anyway, he’s now in secondary school and this boy is being bullied by a group of boys in the year. I don’t know the ins and outs of it but the mother has messaged me to say that my son is in a couple of classes and may have witnessed the bullying and can he vouch that it’s happening. my son is categorically not involved in bullying this boy btw and there’s no question of that.

my son has completely refused to be drawn on the subject. He’s said privately to me that this boy made his life hell and he has no interest in getting involved in anything to do with him. My son is quite quiet but gets on well with most folk but he is digging his heels in here and just says “Couldn’t tell you.” When he’s asked.

I hate the thought of anyone being bullied but I can also see my son’s point that he doesn’t want any involvement with this boy.

wwyd?

Like others have said not sure id even respond to her. Your son has made it clear what he wants to do and he doesn't want to get involved and "vouch" for this boy which seems like a strange thing to ask anyway.
If you do respond id say "x hasnt mentioned anything about bullying, hopefully the teacher will have seen something"
And then leave it

i 'and "vouch" for this boy which seems like a strange thing to ask anyway.'

Strange and completely inappropriate, if the school investigates then witnesses should be free to comment but parents guilt tripping kids is wrong.

It is also a bit mad of her to assume that support is forthcoming

Obviously not commenting is the best response but I would be severely tempted to mischievously respond "considering the past history between our kids, I cannot guarantee he would be entirely fair"

Reply “ after what happened with my son at primary after he was wrongly accused by your child and having suffered with it , he is refusing to get involved with anything regarding your son “ maybe speak with other parents and children .

This is one of the most depressing threads I’ve ever seen.

Child age 9-10 is an annoyingly little brat at primary school, who gets stroppy if other kids don’t do what he wants, so alleges bullying by nice child. All childish stuff which is sorted out because he eventually admits he was lying. Victim of his lies has a rotten time with this, but is basically a happy kid with lots of friends.

Fast forward a couple/few years - kids are bigger and meaner now, and bratty child is being properly bullied at secondary school. We all know that secondary school bullying is in a different league from primary school stuff. Nice child is happy, has friends, all his well. He watches the bullying. He is asked if he will confirm that it is happening, in order to help bullied child. But he says no. He is bitter and angry still, despite the fact that everything is fine for him now. He’d rather sit back and watch the bullying continue.

And fully grown adults are cheering him on! It’s a disgrace.

I am sorry to say this situation is likely to be a product of what happened in his earlier life, respecting his sensitivity is not helpful unless he is taught strategies to build resilience and fortitude. His mother is at least part of the problem.

You did well to support your son’s decision but why is he so reluctant? Is he scared? Not sure what happened? Or holding a grudge? I would want to know the answer, and would challenge any grudges as a parent. Bullying can be very serious at this stage.

I wonder why the school are even questioning whether the boy is being bullied? It’s unusual response. Almost feels like victim blaming in its nature, so there might be some doubt. Maybe the cry wolf analogy fits here.

Your primary (and only) responsibility is to your son who, perfectly understandably, has made it quite clear that he does not want to be involved. Stop asking him about it and respect his decision.

Personally, I'd be extremely reluctant to get involved even if your son was amenable. There is likely to be more to the story than you know.

No you’re wrong.

it caused my son a lot of stress, tears and sleepless nights worrying what else this little boy would make up about him. I think you’re doing a grand job of trying to minimise it because my son was happy and popular. This child’s behaviour at the time was a disgrace and largely written off due to “emotional problems”

we had to instill in my son that alleged “emotional issues” doesn’t mean you can lie to make someone’s life hell because you’re jealous of them. We also instilled in him, unlike the boy’s mother, that if you’re playing a game with other people and you don’t like it or the rules then you don’t play. Don’t expect people to change it all for you - the real world doesn’t work like that.

I would have a big talk with my son and explain that we are under no obligation to help those that have hurt us, and it’s good to recognise that we have been burnt by someone’s behaviour. I would also explain that if this boy is really being bullied it will be an awful experience for him and that when you can genuinely help someone sometimes it is a kind gesture to be the bigger person… then ask him what he thinks is best to do. Xx

Sounds like both schools are diabolical at handling bullying. Outrageous that a parent has to email another parent to try to get someone to "vouch" for something. Do the teachers not watch the children?! Does the school not have someone trained and experienced in talking to all children involved to find out what is happening?!

In relation to your question, I think that your dc should be telling YOU what is going on,, that is a lot better for your dc and means you can judge what your dc needs extra support with. You can use your discretion as to what to say to the other parent, your dc does not need to get involved in that. So frame it with your child that you would like to know what they think is going on, and how they feel about it. This is a chance for you to talk about bullying, feelings, fairness. I wouldn't be teaching my child to ignore bullying because they were wrongly accused of something and instead I would be trying to give dc more support if they had been falsely accused of something though, as it is pretty awful having false rumours spread about you.

Re other child having emotional problems and being jealous, did you hear this from the family themselves? If a child has emotional problems you are supposed to give them the support they need, helping them tolerate emotions to the extent they can (ie this is what you can do with your dc now in relation to what happened at primary) and stepping in when they cannot cope. Withholding support doesn't build resilience, it reduces resilience.

Going back to what happened in primary, was it more that the other child's perception was off, that they felt got at by your dc when that was not intended, or did they say your dc had done or said specific things which your dc denied?

"watches the bullying" where on earth does it say that? We don't even know that he is being bullied - he could be lying through his teeth like he did at primary school.

Not a jot of sympathy for the Op's son in your post - this lad 'made his life hell' ffs

Sounds like both schools are diabolical at handling bullying. Outrageous that a parent has to email another parent to try to get someone to "vouch" for something. Do the teachers not watch the children?! Does the school not have someone trained and experienced in talking to all children involved to find out what is happening?!

In fairness to the current school, we don't actually know that parents have to do that at all. All we have is an odd request from the other mother.

The OP has already stated that the son just wants nothing to do with the boy, as he doesn't trust him. I'm not sure why you, and several other posters have become fixated on the idea of grudges and vengeance.
Some posters have been overly gleeful with their 'karma' comments but this has nothing to do with OP's son's motivations.

We don't even know whether the school are questioning anything. All we know is that this other mother wants OP's son to 'vouch' for hers. We don't know if this is really necessary, or she has some misguided notion of it 'strengthening' her case. Or whether her own son told her that OP's son was a witness without mentioning anybody else.

We don't even know whether OP's son even saw anything!

Answering honestly via proper channels is very different from getting dragged in unofficially like this.

There are no examples here of what your dc was accused of, in relation to bullying. Was your dc accused of excluding the other child? Or of ganging up with other kids to exclude the other child? Was your dc accused of saying unkind things, name calling, making threats (ie specific things which might be seen as bullying)

You said in your OP that it came out that the other child was lying because of jealousy. What specifically had they lied about?

When investigating these things it is important to be clear, to be fair to all the children. Sometimes excluding IS bullying, it depends on how it is done.

Parents shouldn't be getting involved in this stuff in any event. The mother had no business messaging OP: this needs to be left to the professionals. The school can ask DS anything they feel they want to know and he can deal with that as he deems appropriate.

No need. Simply refer the mother to the school. They are the appropriate people to deal with this issue.

Good for your DS - he is showing a degree of maturity and backbone in refusing to have anything to do with the other lad or any issues he may be having. It takes a great deal of courage to stand up for your beliefs whatever they maybe and your DS should be applauded and supported with his decision.
At the end of the day any bullying is an issue for the school to sort out - so let them deal with it.

I suggested that OP gives her dc more support, and suggested that she finds out what happened and then deals with what she learns directly herself while also giving her dc advice and support. I think that that is an appropriate level of support/sympathy to be giving over the internet!!

It is important to be really clear when dealing with bullying situations in schools, and I asked questions about what the "pure hell" involved as so far there are no clear examples and we can give OP better advice if we know what he was accused of.

none of this really matters - it was years ago and it has caused the Op's son to distrust the other boy. Op doesn't have to give you examples of what her son went through. The other boy's actions in primary school have left an impression on the Op's son and he doesn't want to get involved with anything to do with the other boy which is his right.

Sorry, I thought your comment was to me! My mistake.

i respectfully disagree - the Op's son has said he doens't want involved and that should be his decision - Op doesn't need to give him more support or find out what is happening to a boy who made her son's life a misery in P6

This wasn’t a question about specific allegations made against my son.

i won’t go into them here but it ranged from accusing my son of physically hurting him to really awful remarks that this child alleged my son made. All untrue and baseless as he admitted.

Depressing yes, but you clearly only have sympathy for the original bully who you absolve from everything, but it's just dreadful anythings happened to him?

He watches the bullying.

Harsh.

He may or may not be aware of the bullying - to imply that he regards it as some sort of personally satisfying spectator sport is very unfair.

He just wants distance - and may still be coping with the feelings from his own experiences.

It's not just the OPs son the other kid and the accused bullies in the classroom. There's 30 odd kids and a teacher so why should it fall on OPs son to get involved. She's done the right thing by supporting her sons decision. Other kids mum needs to take it up with the school not be pressuring other kids in the class to stick their necks out

Repeated and prolonged false accusations of bullying are bullying behaviour in themselves. Just because it wasn't directly to his face doesn't mean the OP's son wasn't being bullied. And I wonder if the #bekind/take the moral high ground posters have ever had to deal with a child who was being bullied as the OP's son was, and seen the effect on every aspect of their lives. Any MH or home related issues the boy may have had don't wipe out the hell the DS went through.

It's not karma, but the DS is right to protect himself. He isn't positively contribting to the bullying by joining in himself, and given what this boy did to him I think that in itself shows a degree of morality. Some children would be enormously tempted as 'payback'.