To be upset?

[Bingoe]

I’ve been doing a hobby for a couple of years. I have a disability which makes me quite isolated so my support worker recommended I should join a hobby. We meet every couple of months at different venues for organised events. I’m not best buds with anyone but I make polite chitchat and enjoy going.

I turned up to the Jan 2024 meeting to discover I was excluded from participating. They could have made arrangements for me to participate but hadn’t bothered and by that time it was too late to arrange. It touched a nerve because I’ve had discrimination my whole life. I got v upset and messaged the group WhatsApp to say I’m the only person who’s excluded and it’s disability discrimination.

A committee member replied and said the organiser didn’t even know I was disabled so how can it be disability discrimination, it just so happened on that occasion I wasn’t able to participate but it wasn’t on purpose. I said someone should have told me I wouldn’t be able to participate because I arranged and paid for transport, and was literally in the foyer by the time I discovered I couldn’t participate, so that was very upsetting for me and I cried. A couple of other members replied and said chin up, you need to be more resilient because life is full of setbacks like this, and examples of times when they couldn’t participate (not the same at all). Most said nothing.

Anyway… the annual membership fee is due on 31st Jan. I’ve been very sick so I didn’t realise the date. On 1st Feb I discovered I’d been removed from the WhatsApp group and Facebook group. I know that’s because I hadn’t paid the subs, but it just seemed so abrupt. No message to say “hey Bingoe have you forgot your subs are due, are you intending to still be a member, hope you’re ok”. Nothing.

AIBU to feel really upset? I know it’s a totally practical thing, you don’t pay you get kicked out… but honestly I just feel like nobody gives a shit. Of course I could just request to rejoin and pay the subs now, but I’m really hurt at the total lack of contact, just removing me with no notification. I also feel like maybe it’s because I got upset a few weeks ago and pointed out I’d been discriminated against, so now I feel like I’m being punished for calling them out.

My partner is saying they aren’t very nice and why would you want to keep being a member anyway, but like I said I’m very isolated and it was one of the few things I had.

I have a disability - but its my responsibility to make sure my needs are met.
Also it doesn't sound like you make the effort to make friendships.

No it’s not your responsibility. Obviously guidance and practical suggestions are good but we need to move from this standpoint of disabled people apologising and kowtowing to non-disabled sensitivities.

as a society we need to constantly question why we are not more inclusive.

the attitudes displayed by so many on this thread demonstrate exactly why life is so hard for so many disabled people. It’s sickening.

It is, of course, absolutely true and accurate to say that just because you are <insert here> old/black/disabled/whatever you are also NICE.
Nasty people exist anywhere and everywhere.
As do nice people, of course.

Your post, however, is a massive reach....

Your post basically says
You might not be a nice person
Therefore I'm assuming you're NOT a nice person
Therefore it's all your fault

I’m just saying I think they should have let me know I couldn’t be included before I travelled there. I realise it was an oversight but I think the appropriate response is an apology. Not making an excuse like “at the end of the day the committee members are all volunteers who are busy with their own lives and jobs and also it was the Xmas holiday period”. As if I was the one who was being unreasonable for having expected them to organise it properly.

FWIW I do think if someone who was well liked (a committee member perhaps) forgot to pay their subs, the others would have messaged and said “have you forgot, hope you’re not leaving?” Not removed them without a word as they did to me. And I do think it’s because I complained about this incident.

I agree, I think it was miscommunication and oversight, I'm also embarrassed to say that I would assume all facilities have disabled access. Unfortunately the reaction should've been an apology and not an excuse/argument. It seems like both parties have taken offence at each other and it may be time to find another group

@Bingoe maybe they did remove you because of the museum incident. Maybe they felt that you didn't give them the benefit of the doubt, so they didn't bother to give you the benefit of the doubt with the subs either.

sorry to hear this OP.

as pps have said, this wasn’t personal and not designed to exclude you. However, it did exclude you and the volunteers made a mistake.

It sounds like they are doubling down in the way people do when they are a bit embarrassed and know they’ve mucked up.

All this ‘oh you need to be more resilient’ is to make them feel better that none of them stayed with you, and went on to enjoy the tour without you.

unfortunately, I suspect they have got a bit scared about the legislation and were perhaps worried that saying sorry was an admission of guilt.

So you went in guns blazing accusing everyone of discrimination and spoiled it for yourself when they have taken care to include you in every other visit.? I think as it was upsetting for you, your reaction was completely unfair towards them and I don't blame them from removing you. Why would they contact you after you made bold accusations at them?
It was as simple as they said, it was over Xmas time , it was offered to them and it slipped people's minds. If 'you' didn't even check for access, why are you placing such a higher expectation of the group to check? They haven't done this to you before, so why assume the worst of the group?

So you acknowledge it wasn't malice yet accused people of discrimination and expect them to be nice to you? Yabvu.

What "benefit of the doubt"?

The organiser didn't check whether the venue was accessible, when they knew the OP had specific needs. Where is the doubt?

The organiser should have taken 2 mins to ask "oh by the way, one of our members uses a wheelchair, can she attend". And 2 more minutes to message the OP and say " I am sorry that the venue isn't accessible for you, hope you can join us next time".

Not thinking of doing that means they were discriminating. It is indirect discrimination. It may not have been intended, but that does not make it ok. There is no doubt to give them the benefit of. The OP pays to be part of the group, why do you think she doesn't deserve to be treated with basic decency?

So if I’m discriminated against, I should avoid mentioning it if it’s not happened previously? Because they might regard it as unfair if I point out the discrimination and that might result in me being excluded. Right.

Btw I’m expecting them to check because they’re the organiser and I’ve paid them.

@LordEmsworth in OPs first post she says the organiser didn't know she was disabled.

From that, I took it to mean that either the person from the group that the museum approached was unaware of OPs disability.

OR, more likely, the museum contacted the group member and this group member just presumed the museum would have disabled access (as I would have done myself)

OR, it was Christmas time, the museum contact came as a surprise to the volunteer, she had a lot on, OP slipped her mind and she forgot to mention it.

That's the benefit of the doubt I'm talking about.

Usually it’s organised by our group secretary, who makes an effort to make it suitable for everyone.

I think given you acknowledge that they normally make an effort to make sure it's suitable for everyone, I would have made your initial message to them less confrontational.
I'd have approached it by first acknowledging that you appreciate that they normally do that, then said how disappointed you were not to participate, then concluded by asking if they can keep you informed and if that is the case in the future events then they let you know so you know not to come.
You'd have probably got a lovely apology back and they'd have it at the back of their mind to make sure in future places are accessible.
I'd also have gone for polite email/message to organiser rather than the whole group.

There are times when it's right to go straight for the confrontational approach. But I don't think this was one of them. If I'd been the organiser, I'd have thought "heck, after all the times I've checked so carefully, made sure everything was okay, and the one time I forget I get that reaction." It's very tiring being the organiser; often all you get are complaints when things go wrong.

So yes, they shouldn't have done it, but I think you escalated it in a way that was ultimately unhelpful.

Without actually getting into who was at fault, I can't comprehend how an established group could walk off and leave one of their members crying by herself. What a bunch of miserable shits.

Given that you say you usually are considered it sounds like it was an error rather than actively trying to exclude or discriminate. I suppose the tone of your complaint put people's backs up and hence you got the rather formal reply with the comment about the volunteer aspect.

I think I would think about whether it is an activity you will miss and whether it can be replicated elsewhere. If not I would repay my subs and get back to it. I would also make sure before setting off that every venue is accessible.

That's the benefit of the doubt I'm talking about.

wouldn’t it be refreshing if the benefit of the doubt was given to the minority for once? Rather than the majority conclude that it would be far more comfortable to assume the minority person was just being a bit vexatious?

thats the attitude that needs to change.

I feel that it is vexatious to accuse people of discrimination when every other time your needs have been catered for.

I suspect a different response would've been forthcoming from the committee if OP had asked to speak to the organiser in private, outlined her concerns and that she was upset, said it had cost her money to travel and that she wanted to make sure it didn't happen again, to her or anyone else.

@Bingoe but they have not discriminated against you before this, so you brought your previous experiences and lashed out to them. Accusing them of discrimination without actually confirming what happened definitely got people's backs up. It wasn't even them who actively sought out this particular event, it was arranged by someone else. You probably would have received a very different reaction if you approached them reasonably instead of the way you did.

@Dacadactyl

no it’s not vexatious just because she complained the first time. In a civilised society we think of and cater for all rather than make the person who struggles more than others feel guilty for asking to be treated equally.

and then they kick her out at first opportunity - yes that’s inclusive for sure.

I'm sorry OP, I can't believe the responses you're getting.
I understand how human error could have let this happen but the follow up sounds awful, I'm sorry you were treated this way. I would cry too.

@Scautish I agree its not vexatious to complain. And I agree OP should have complained.

However, it is the WAY you complain that can be perceived as vexatious.

My group knew I’m disabled. The curator at the museum didn’t. So therefore she didn’t make efforts to be inclusive or to contact me about the fact I couldn’t be included.

The committee was told by the curator everyone would be included and they passed this on to the rest of the group. They expected everyone to be included until I went through the door and realised I wasn’t included.

I don’t blame the group for me not being included. I do however think they should have apologised and admitted the curator was at fault, instead of making excuses about why it wasn’t her fault or theirs. And I do think this has directly led to them deleting me without any further contact less than 24 hours after the subs were due.

Why is it that it’s perceived as worse to be accused of discrimination than to receive it?

It’s a common theme on threads on here about various forms of discrimination and there’s an underlying hypocrisy in it.

The group don’t sound very nice. They sound a bit cliquey, in fact.

But yes, I agree it might be worth checking yourself about your access requirements for other things like that. I have an allergy and even when I’m not the one organising the thing, I always check myself in advance. Not the same, but I need to know I’ll be fine.

Please don’t be discouraged out of trying another group, OP. There are others out there with nicer members! Let this one go.

Even if it was on oversight and they weren't aware their response was not acceptable and the only appropriate response would be 'I'm so sorry , we will look into trying to ensure this doesn't happen again'
It's all very well able bodied people on here saying they think you were unreasonable as they are not likely to have ever been in a situation where they are sat in a foyer unable to access a museum