To be upset?

[Bingoe]

I’ve been doing a hobby for a couple of years. I have a disability which makes me quite isolated so my support worker recommended I should join a hobby. We meet every couple of months at different venues for organised events. I’m not best buds with anyone but I make polite chitchat and enjoy going.

I turned up to the Jan 2024 meeting to discover I was excluded from participating. They could have made arrangements for me to participate but hadn’t bothered and by that time it was too late to arrange. It touched a nerve because I’ve had discrimination my whole life. I got v upset and messaged the group WhatsApp to say I’m the only person who’s excluded and it’s disability discrimination.

A committee member replied and said the organiser didn’t even know I was disabled so how can it be disability discrimination, it just so happened on that occasion I wasn’t able to participate but it wasn’t on purpose. I said someone should have told me I wouldn’t be able to participate because I arranged and paid for transport, and was literally in the foyer by the time I discovered I couldn’t participate, so that was very upsetting for me and I cried. A couple of other members replied and said chin up, you need to be more resilient because life is full of setbacks like this, and examples of times when they couldn’t participate (not the same at all). Most said nothing.

Anyway… the annual membership fee is due on 31st Jan. I’ve been very sick so I didn’t realise the date. On 1st Feb I discovered I’d been removed from the WhatsApp group and Facebook group. I know that’s because I hadn’t paid the subs, but it just seemed so abrupt. No message to say “hey Bingoe have you forgot your subs are due, are you intending to still be a member, hope you’re ok”. Nothing.

AIBU to feel really upset? I know it’s a totally practical thing, you don’t pay you get kicked out… but honestly I just feel like nobody gives a shit. Of course I could just request to rejoin and pay the subs now, but I’m really hurt at the total lack of contact, just removing me with no notification. I also feel like maybe it’s because I got upset a few weeks ago and pointed out I’d been discriminated against, so now I feel like I’m being punished for calling them out.

My partner is saying they aren’t very nice and why would you want to keep being a member anyway, but like I said I’m very isolated and it was one of the few things I had.

Historic buildings are a valid accessibility problem - no ramp can accommodate for a spiral staircase. I wouldn’t blame the museum - they are limited by practicalities of architecture.

The organisers though are appalling. You don’t allow a member of your club to turn and find its not accessible like that. You investigate it for them, or at least mention it to the museum staff who you’re in contact with. To double down on that after the fact by dismissing the OP’s feelings and trying to make excuses without apology. That’s bloody shit.

As someone involved in a volunteer organisation organising events and days out. It is a very thankless job. So I am not going to comment on the actual event.

Would you consider joining the committee and arranging future events so this never happens again?

I totally understand it was an oversight. They assumed it would be suitable for everyone. It was the curator who failed to communicate that wasn’t the case. Or maybe she did but the committee failed to pass that info on to me because of it being Xmas.

Like I said, what peed me off was the lack of apology. They took no responsibility and said the curator wasn’t at fault either. Then blamed me for expecting them to have done the job they signed up for, making excuses that they’re volunteers and it was Xmas.

Yes you’re right… it’s hardly surprising that when I didn’t pay up on time they just quickly removed me and didn’t follow up. That’s what happens when you speak up for yourself instead of just allowing discrimination to pass unchallenged.

I agree with you OP and I think that given you pay membership and the outings are organised, it’s reasonable to expect to be accommodated without having to double check everything yourself.

However, I think removing you from the WhatsApp group when you didn’t pay is to be expected. A reminder would have been nice but given those running the group can’t remember to do what they should in terms of accommodation, it’s not surprising that they can’t think of best practice either. I also suspect they might have thought you left as a result of the last trip and it wasn’t something you had overlooked.

It is not possible for all public buildings to be accessible for all, due to historic building designs etc. They would say that on the website. This particular museum did not have a website according to the OP, but they must have a way of being contacted to check accessibility, surely? This is something that the OP cannot leave to chance.

I pay membership to the group for them to organise outings. They’re aware of my needs and the needs of others. So I don’t think I should have to organise it myself - that’s their role. It’s not left to chance - I’ve paid a fee to a group to organise it on my behalf.

There are quite a lot of people on this thread who don't understand what discrimination is. 🙄I have helpfully googled it for you, so you can see that the OP has experienced both indirect discrimination and victimisation: https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights/how-you-can-be-discriminated-against

Honestly OP, I'd be sending the committee a letter pointing out that they are breaching the Equality Act; that you appreciate the time and work they put into running the group, but they are not exempt from either the laws of the UK, or being human beings with empathy and compassion; point out that any of them might become disabled in their lifetime; and tell them how sad you are that they have excluded you from the group rather than address the issue. I appreciate you might not want to, and frankly they are twats. Have you thought of starting your own group?

I am not sure it is discrimination rather it was an oversight to check whether it was accessible and relay that it wasn't. Would you have expected them to not go at all because you couldn't especially as it seems it opens on occasions only to private groups? Or would you have accepted an explanation that we have this rare opportunity to do this but unfortunately it isn't accessible to wheelchair users or would you have really take the stance if I can't go then none of you should?

It was unfortunate that they didn't apologise for not checking which could have saved you the wasted journey.

Cancellation of membership and removal from group for not paying subs as they fall due is a different matter. Would they have done this to anyone not paying on time? If you think no and it is because of the trip then you may have a case of discrimination now but perhaps as a group of volunteers they don't want the threat of the group being sued for discrimination?

This. People without disabilities have no idea what it's like to get excluded from things constantly and just being told shit like "you should be more resilient". Fuck that. Their response is by far the worse thing about this.

I'm very sorry for your experience Op but it doesn't sound like it was deliberate on their part.

It is hard when you volunteer to run things & I can imagine they were very happy to have had someone else take that burden from them (at least for one activity) especially during the very busy period.

Could you contact them to offer to be on the committee also & help to organise the events?

@Spirallingdownwards I am not sure it is discrimination rather it was an oversight to check whether it was accessible and relay that it wasn't
That oversight is discrimination. That is the definition of indirect discrimination. The museum isn't accessible and can't make itself accessible; but they can tell prospective visitors, this venue is not suitable for those in wheelchairs or with mobility problems. Rather than assume that everyone in the group is healthy and able bodied. Why would you assume that a group of people doesn't have anyone with mobility issues?

@theconfidenceofwho I'm very sorry for your experience Op but it doesn't sound like it was deliberate on their part. "Not deliberate isn't a synonym for "ok and acceptable". And cold shouldering the OP and telling her to "be more resilient" was very* deliberate. I speak as chair of a voluntary organisation, the correct response is massive apologies and take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again.

I’ve already said I’m happy for others to go even if it isn’t accessible to me. I’m happy to be contacted and told this event isn’t suitable for me. What I’m not happy with is not being told, doing a 1hr round trip (and paying for it) only to realise in the foyer that I can’t get up the stairs. I’m not happy with the people who accepted the role of being organisers not doing the organising because it’s within 2 weeks of Xmas. And I’m not happy to be told I need to be more resilient when I point out discrimination and say how much it upset me.

I'm pissed off on your behalf, OP. Yes, it is disability discrimination, but you will rarely get able bodied people to see that their assumptions are discriminatory. The group you are part of are totally in the wrong and so is the museum. I agree with your DH. I wouldn't return to that particular group, but I would try to find another one (I do know how hard that can be).

@Bingoe sorry this happened to you Bingoe, sounds absolutely shit.
As if being a wheelchair user isn't difficult enough with places being inaccessible, to feel left out of things must be really tough for you. You have done brilliantly getting out and about and you didn't deserve this setback.
I wish people remembered that our every single persons physical ability is borrowed to those of us lucky to get it, mobility issues gets us all of we age and the fact we don't make the world more accessible just shows how ignorant we are at times.

I've always found galleries and cinemas have had excellent accessibility, more so than museums. Do you like history generally? Maybe some local historians near you have talks in accessible places? Obviously I'm not sure we're you're based but if you're comfortable to tell us maybe we've posters who can recommend you things to get you out more? Don't stick to one group you're not feeling apart of. You deserve nice pals x

I'm so sorry to hear how you were treated - sounds like they showed absolutely zero empathy when you turned up and had no access. Even if somebody didn't feel it was their fault, I can't believe the organiser didn't apologise or treat you kindly. A little compassion would have gone a long way.

You need to weigh up whether attending in future will cause you too much upset/anxiety and therefore best left alone, or if you can put it behind you and enjoy the hobby as you once did xx

What shitty people to leave you crying in the foyer.

Tbh I think it’s the responsibility of everyone in a club to ensure that the activities that the club does fit them on any given day or week.
It is not the responsibility of the committee or other members. They could’ve said sorry certainly, but I do think we’re not being told the whole story. Do you have form for hyperbole or being difficult with them?

For clarity. I think we are being given an one-sided view. You may be suffering discrimination for all we know but simultaneously being disabled does not mean that you can’t be difficult person also and this may also be the case here.

It sounds like miscommunication that's escalated? It sounds like you were unintentionally excluded and your first response was to say I’m the only person who’s excluded and it’s disability discrimination. and this got their back up (I understand why you assumed this, but equally it would be upsetting to be accused of this if ita untrue, particularly in a group setting), then by not paying they assumed you were angry and didn't want to be part of the group. I'd just have a concern with the person face to face or phone if possible, as text isn't the best way to communicate and I'm sure it will be sorted out.

I’m really sorry, OP. I’m also sorry for the ableist bullshit you’re getting on here.

You shouldn’t have played the disability card from the off. It just puts everyone on the back foot because in all likelihood that just isn’t true, however much you may feel it is.

im sorry OP. It absolutely is discrimination and this post is an excellent example of denial of such.

@BananasInThreePieceSuits ignorance of what is construed as discrimination is not a defence. I find your attitude very offensive.

I understand why this was upsetting for you, but I’m really not sure this wa discrimation and I’m concerned about your repeated accusations against the group. It does seem likely this was just an unfortunate oversight, but you do appear to be blaming the organiser , who is a volunteer, and simply responded to this over Xmas, for not checking, when you yourself didn’t check and could have done.

you also know you can just pay the subs and join again, there is no big deal there.

i think I would urge you to consider that this wasn’t malicious, it was an unfortunate oversight, and it was you who didn’t pay the subs, also unfortunate. And you can just pay now and join again.

its just a hobby group op, volunteers organising stuff for fun, she made a mistake, thats all.

I don’t agree, it’s a for fun hobby group and the volunteer offering to organise simply made a mistake. A very unfortunate one, but a mistake all the less. Discrimination is prejudiced treatment of someone due to a difference, I think in this instance she literally didn’t think.

I would imagine most people with disabilities have buckets of resilience and everyone is entitled to have the cup run dry every so often. Especially when you're treated poorly. The polite and human thing to do would be to wholeheartedly apologise to you and for soMeone to wait in the foyer with you. Unfortunately it looks like this group is full of oddballs and you'd be better off finding a new one.

Discrimination doesn't have to be deliberate. This was discrimination, on the part of the museum (they assumed none of the members would have a problem with stairs) and the volunteers (they had time to organise the excursion, but not for everybody - even if they didn't mean it, it still happened). Clearly the volunteers got defensive when it was pointed out, instead of listening, apologising, and learning for next time.
And for all the people saying "why didn't you check yourself", OP makes a very valid point that they shouldn't have to when they've outsourced this to a group. Do you realise how exhausting it is to have to ring up before every social event, trip out, restaurant visit? And half the time they say "yes we're accessible" and then aren't when you get there anyway.
As for "disability card" - what rubbish. Being excluded from somewhere due to lack of accessibility isn't "playing the disability card", it's facts.

I'm really sorry this happened to you OP. I hope you can work with your support worker to find somewhere else to go.