To feel annoyed that those on UC have more disposable income

[nappyvalley2024]

Myself and DH both work full time and have one child in nursery that we are paying for. We have a household income of just under £100k. After taxes, mortgage, student loan, NI, pension deductions and bills we are not actually left with a huge amount of disposable income. We are in the south east.

Brother in law and his partner have just had their first baby and announced that SIL will not be returning to work for at least 3 years. BIL earns roughly £30k and they live in social housing (lucky them). They will get around £900 a month in UC + no childcare bill.

So whilst we are running around like headless chickens trying to keep on top of things and juggle professional jobs, house renovations and parenting. My SIL will have the pleasure of sitting at home with no stress enjoying her baby. (SIL is known to be very lazy and also took the whole of her pregnancy off sick due to anxiety.)

At this point I just feel so deflated, and am wondering what the point is of working hard and being self sufficient. Funny thing is in laws think we are the lucky ones, when I don't actually think we are here. The system needs to change as there is no incentive to work.

"It was 40% before 1980"

In the 1960's and 1970's vast numbers of people lived in council houses, and their rents were genuinely affordable.

Then Thatcher's ideologically driven 'Right To Buy" policy came along and the number of council houses plummeted.

And now very large numbers of low paid people are living in housing association properties, where the rents are much higher than council lets were, or in private lets, where the rents are higher still, and so huge numbers of households are claiming the housing element of UC or else they'd be homeless.

People on the right helped create this mess. What ideas have you got for addressing it, other than bringing back rickets and workhouses?

Hmm. Yeah the numbers for your DBs family, much, much lower than yours.
I suspect they'd love to be in your position..
Your life might not seem as far from theirs as you'd like right now, but your prospects improve more with time, whereas theirs don't.
Your childcare stops, and eventually you'll be mortgage free. Their rent will continue to increase.

Aside from the rest of it all, anxiety isn't lazy. I have a shit load of health conditions- anxiety is probably the worst to deal with. Especially during pregnancy... I'm lucky that my DH earns a fairly large wage, because during pregnancy I cannot work.
Earlier days of my current pregnancy I remember saying to him that I was feeling so anxious that I was thinking quite seriously about jumping in front of a train, it was concerning to me because I just felt horrific out of nowhere
By the time I had an appointment to increase my medication, I'd found out I was pregnant and was advised to stop.
The past 8 months has been pretty bad, I've been getting about 2 hours of sleep per night and I spent yesterday having panic attacks, constantly. I woke up having another an hour ago.

If her life is at all like mine is trying to manage anxiety, I feel like you need to learn a bit of understanding for the mother of your DNs.

I have 2 friends who have chosen to stay very part time (2 days/week, term time only) despite friend 1 only having one dc who is in school full time (age 7). The other has 2 dc - year 6 and year 10. Both holiday yearly, eat out weekly, have coffee out weekly. Not that those are extravagant, but owning a home with a mortgage, food and other bills, running a car and having money left over for fun things when only working 2 days/week, term time only seems unbelievable. Then I heard how much they get with UC and it all made sense! One worked out she could work FT and still be worse off than she is working 2 days/week and on UC!

Not sure how that is working, because you have to work 30 hours under UC rules once your child turns 3.

Sending you some support too, because you deserve it.
Please know that lots of us in the real world are nothing like some of the, quite frankly, vile post(er)s on here.

Lol @ "people like me keep the country afloat".

Nah hen, you don't.
You're just someone with a decent income outraged at the wrong people. You're actually holding society back.
You want to be angry with some lass who works in the asda for having the occasional wee treat or daring to have a family as opposed to the fuckers who earn millions and avoid tax and stir up people like yourself to be angry at the plebs so you don't look at where the real problem lies. The only thing you're keeping afloat is self importance and goady mumsnet posts. We learnt during lockdown who kept things running and I dont remember the gratitude for those 100k household income being shared left right and centre.

Those keyworkers you all went outside and clapped for (irritatingly enough for those of working nights, might I add) aren't your problem, stop being all channel 5esque about it and direct your anger at those dismantling the NHS or ripping us off in every possible way to make money off us.

I'd love to hear of the opportunities you were given growing up, I'd love to know your homelife, education, experiences that gave you this outlook, because the lives of most people I know who struggle to find employment or hold down a job would give anything to be in your shoes, even if they can occasionally get a maccies breakfast.

@Underthesea65 where you based my friend? If you're Merseyside/Cheshire way and need anything, help with cleaning/someone to sit with you so you can have company let me know.
Anything else I can do even if you're not local, please let me know.

Don't listen to the absolute bollocks the love children of Maggie thatcher and Michelle mone produce on here. They'd not swap with you, would they pal?

Sending love anyway and do slide into my dms if I can be of any use 💐

Because they’re spending money on house renovations..,..

Not necessarily. I don't work and have four DC in the school system. Youngest is 6yo. We get almost £1k a month in UC.

Dependent on circumstances, yes. Are you studying/get disability benefits?

DH works full time, and I study with the OU part time when DC are in school Monday to Friday.

Nope no Adult Disability Payments, not eligible for it. Notice of Determination arrived recently in the post.

These threads make me so glad I'm 55 and on the cusp of my twilight years. Only another 15 or 20 years to go hopefully, if we go by the standard metric of 3 score years and 10. I don't recognise this world, which has changed so much in the last decade particularly since the sodding pandemic.

Look at us all, squabbling and frothing over the unfairness of it all while those who govern quaff champers and no doubt laugh up their sleeves.

Money is supposed to be a tool. We all pay for each other one way or another. The money that every body seems to think is a finite resort is generated by computers and there'smiraculouslyalways enough for wars, bank bail outs etc, but not enough for peace or infrastructure to keep citizens secure. The "market" that dictates so much is gambling. Every widget or service we pay for is taxed multiple times. People are living in extreme deprivation world wide by political design.

People yell about taking personal responsibility for their lives and rush to judgement on those who struggle, yet so much of that means being ruthless selfish and we reap the rewards when people turn on each other with glee at every opportunity.

Like I say, roll on my appointment with the grim reaper. In the meantime I'll try not to be part of the problem.

I'm baffled that on 100k you have limited disposable income vs someone with a household income of 42k

@Hotchocolate2023

I suspect that is because of "lifestyle" . Particular status symbols like the nice house and corresponding mortgage. The right car. Designer clothing. Private school. Living in a naice area. Good nutrition etc. The things that people on lower incomes are supposed to aspire to.

I mean, all the things that are so much more important than good familial relationships and compassion in the wider community. Gotta keep up with the Joneses and feed the machine.

Cutting ones cloth according to ones means only applies to the poor apparently.

That's the answer then, you're studying. If you weren't, you'd be made to look for work.

Possibly. Although I noticed that others have said OU study (full or part time) doesn't count in Universal Credit calculations.

I'm not sure about OU to be honest as I've no personal experience with that, but as a UC claimant I definitely had to work when DS was that age, although not 30 hours as it was different back then, the 30 hours has only very recently come into play.

Others have also said that DH's salary must be just over the household threshold so that I don't need to work. He must work enough hours each week. Yet I thought both adults in a household were expected to look for work with school aged children? That's what I read online. I keep checking my journal weekly in case it suddenly changes.

OP your post is nonsense.

I would be seriously miffed if I was expected to work 30 hours each week, whilst studying part time, raising a busy family, with chronic health issues mixed in too. Osteoarthritis not severe enough (even though on strong painkillers daily) to warrant ADP.

I think that is true. They might nudge you with ideas for job hunting but will leave you alone. I presume because you are studying that that probably counts towards job search. I am sure a colleague said her TA course counted towards the hours she is meant to work as a single parent.

They've slowly been raising it. When I had DS it was still tax credits, I wasn't expected to work until he was 5 and then only 16 hours (although I personally did more). Then when UC came in it was go back to work when DC is 3 for a minimum of 15 hours, increasing to 25 at school age and 35 at age 12. Now they've upped it to 30 hours from 3 years old. I'm full time now anyway as DS is 16 but I think I'd have struggled to do 30 hours when he was younger.

So as not to come across as smug, I do check in regularly on the journal in case I need to do job searches etc. I can't see it happening at the moment due to 16-18 hour commitment to study on a weekly basis via the OU amongst other commitments in my life. You are right, does sound like the course is counted as job searching or training so I am being left alone to get on with it for the moment...

I literally don't have time to breathe from 7am until 23.00

(Off-topic) I haven’t read the whole thread so don’t know if others have mentioned it, but please don’t use ‘literally’ this way. It is one of my bugbears. I’m hoping you didn’t mean it literally and that you are still alive.