To feel annoyed that those on UC have more disposable income

[nappyvalley2024]

Myself and DH both work full time and have one child in nursery that we are paying for. We have a household income of just under £100k. After taxes, mortgage, student loan, NI, pension deductions and bills we are not actually left with a huge amount of disposable income. We are in the south east.

Brother in law and his partner have just had their first baby and announced that SIL will not be returning to work for at least 3 years. BIL earns roughly £30k and they live in social housing (lucky them). They will get around £900 a month in UC + no childcare bill.

So whilst we are running around like headless chickens trying to keep on top of things and juggle professional jobs, house renovations and parenting. My SIL will have the pleasure of sitting at home with no stress enjoying her baby. (SIL is known to be very lazy and also took the whole of her pregnancy off sick due to anxiety.)

At this point I just feel so deflated, and am wondering what the point is of working hard and being self sufficient. Funny thing is in laws think we are the lucky ones, when I don't actually think we are here. The system needs to change as there is no incentive to work.

Plenty of unskilled low income jobs which fit in school hours and offer 12 weeks a year annual leave to cover school holidays? Can you link to three?

Nurseries and child minders are closing as the rate government pay for funded hours don't cover the costs of the childcare place.

It's not that simple.

If more nurseries and such opened to meet demand... Why is there a waiting list at pretty much every nursery right now?

Just a summary glance around MN shows that there's limited places.

we have a gross household income a little under £100k after pensions (split 50/50). There are a few other things deducted from our pay (health insurance, charity donations through a work scheme, professional fee & some training cost for a new qualification my OH is self funding). With that we get just shy of £6k a month. I assume you must have a similar income (possibly a bit less if you still have student loans/pension taken out &/or your income split is uneven but similar)

Their net income even with things like cost of living payments is going to be about £3k so you have something around £3k more than them available to you. It may also be there are some services they can access at reduced cost/free but there also may not. It’s not automatic that those on UC can all access everything regardless of what much of the press would have us believe. Right now that £3k could mainly be going on nursery fees. However it’s temporary and in a few years you’ll get most of it available to you again. Also you may well get some career advancement with pay increases and that will all make a big difference.

You may well end up no better off for a year or two but in the long run you’ll have a lot more disposable income and you’ll have more choices than someone depending on UC.

The general set up where you end up worse off by working more at various points (coming off UC, tax bands etc) is a fairly stupid system and I genuinely think there has to be a better way of managing it. You can’t get upset with individuals though. For all the self righteousness that’s regularly on display on mumsnet about benefit claimants or high earners dodging tax almost everyone will only want to work more if it benefits them. If you tapered off UC much more gradually and didn’t cliff edge various associated benefits I’d imagine a lot less people would be inclined to try and stick to working the minimum hours vs increasing them and being worse off overall. A sensible approach would surely be to taper UC off gradually enough that when you earn more your get a significant portion of the additional earnings as incremental net income. The way they do it currently effectively creates a ludicrous marginal tax rate on a slice of income and it’s a real barrier to getting people to work more

But the real question is , you hat are you doing to be in that position one day?

Your son is severely autistic so you need the benefit. Why do hate these threads?, do you not understand that the more people that do not need the benefits rip off the system, the less is there for you and those who really need it? For the particular case of the OP's SIL and BIL, why should they chose to have a low paid job and only one income AND live in an expensive area of London?. Frankly the benefits system is like an enabler to many, while the ones that really need it get the bare minimum and still feel guilty about it....

To be fair, I do this as part of my job and it takes about 3 minutes

It's not for you (or the OP) to judge who is the deserving or undeserving poor. All you're judging this family on is what the (clearly biassed) OP has posted about their circumstances. The OPs SIL has mental health problems so severe she couldn't work. They have inherited a social housing tenancy, so presumably lost their parent(s). I doubt their life is enviable.

Who do you believe is ‘ripping off’ the system? In the OP’s sil case, her going to work before the child is 3 would only put the family in deeper financial woes. We are still living in a social/finacial system that is based on conservative family ideals (that it is better for one parent to be home during the early years) but with the modern expectation of both parents working. Of course families will chose the option that gives them better security overall.

And I can completely understand the place the poster you’re quoting is coming from, it’s all very well saying ‘oh but we don’t mean you’ when talking about limited financial/working situations, but most people on benefits are in this situation. Either genuinely unable to work (or more than a few hours), claim UC despite having FT work as top up or have realised their short term situation means that one wage and one stay at home parent is the only way not to sink finances.

And not everyone who needs the benefits system gets ‘the bare minimum’. Many (too many) do, but it’s not always the case. Of course, this isn’t a good thing - people like myself are 10x more screwed in the future than someone like the op who’s actually moaning about having a well set up life…

How on earth can someone envy a low-income family in social housing?

You will probably benefit more later in life.

As you get older your earnings will increase more rapidly than your BIL., and when your kids grow up and leave you will have a lot more disposable income.

Plus you will have all the equity you have built up in your house over that period (of course your BIL may gain equity with right to buy).

Anyway, you have Labour to look forward to. If they get in (looks likely) they are going to transfer more wealth from you to your BIL.

I agree with your view of the OP but on a side note, what is wrong with social housing?

I’m a disabled single parent on universal credit. Because my disability has declined and I’m in agonising pain I’m no longer able to work at this current moment or for the foreseeable future. Any ‘disposable’ money I have, which by the way isn’t a lot, goes towards a fund to save for a holiday. I haven’t been on a holiday for 7 years or even stayed overnight in a different town in that time either. The way you’re talking is as if people like me who can’t help but be on universal credit can’t have ‘nice things’. We’re people too.

Yes I’m wondering why social housing keeps being mentioned as a negative or out of jealousy. A family has a secure roof over their heads and not paying extortionate rent in a time where most people can’t afford to buy and end up in horror private rents that could be sold under them at any time. How awful 🤨

@Iwantmyoldnameback

What do you mean by ‘then along came right to buy’. You said you was always told at least you will own your house, like you’re somehow better because of that then those peasants are now slightly more equal to you.

Social housing is a double edged sword.

In the last 15 years or so I've lived in 4 different Social properties under 4 different Social landlords.

Each one has been in the middle of several social housing properties, 2 on a social housing estates, 2 more general roads with a row of social housing mixed with private homes.

Every time I've moved in they've been prepped to a "Livable" standard.
That standard in my experience means:

Not decorated - none of them have been decorated before I moved in, just left however previous tenant left it but with dodgy repairs done to anything that needed it. Think holes in walls filled and left unsanded, wall paper left even if its peeling, bathrooms left painted with standard paint and not bathroom paint so its peeling. So on and so on.

Gardens not prepped - long grass, weeds, dog muck, broken outbuildings, lost bins, no washing lines, even a fallen tree in one.

No Carpeting - all ripped up roughly often leaving tacks and grippers and glue and mess behind.

No curtain rails - usually just ripped down with holes being left in a wood Barton above the windows.

Unclean - the property I had before this one had erm.. well.. 'nose Gold' wiped on the bedroom wall above where the bed used to be... This property I'm in now had several interesting bags of tissues and other used "Adult" items stuffed in the under stairs cupboard...

Poor heating systems - every social housing home I've moved into has had very bad heating systems that are very old and not very good. One property I moved to had 1980s storage heaters in the bedroom that we couldn't use because they were so old they'd gathered tons of dust that burnt off when you put them on.. landlord refused to change them as they were technically working...

Neighbours - if you enjoy peace and quiet, forget it. I've not known peace and quiet for as long as I can remember. Dogs, engines, fights, arguments, door slamming, kids screaming, trampolines bouncing etc and so on. I think forcing a lot of people who are often on the poorer end of society to live in close proximity doesn't lead to a Social housing Utopia, it leads to aggression, desperation, crime.

And the biggest downside in my opinion...
Choice - You have very little and sometimes, none. I was given a band 2 rating and could bid on homes on the website. I bid on over 800 homes in 3 years, never got a viewing. I ended up living in a house in a town id never visited and didn't know in an area thats on the border of the most crime ridden area of the town. About 100 yards from me, 6 months before I moved here, someone got shot.

So all that too say...

Is social housing something people should aspire too?

Whilst I think I'm very lucky to have got a place, I don't think anyone should think it's the be all and end all of housing, it isn't.

You can get lucky and find a lovely.place, and if you do, hold it like it's made of a 1000 diamonds, but the chances are you'll end up in a deprived poverty and crime ridden area where people are trying to just stay alive, barely existing, not living.

They will get around £900 a month in UC + no childcare bill

This information is not correct

When I was on UC and partner working (£25k pa) I was only receiving around £150

also, raising a child is incredibly hard work

You sound v jealous

She won't need to for the rest of her life. Why doesn't she go and get it if she wants the same?

Mortgage or rent?

The number of “poor me, I might as well be on benefits” threads started by and contributed to by people who purport to have high incomes has really increased lately. I wonder why?

Because we were struggling and that's what we were told. I blame no one for taking advantage of RTB but it was a lousy idea and you only have to look at many former social homes are now private rentals to see how it has not helped society.

Sounds like you need to learn to turn down going to these things. Plus why don't you cut down the two jobs you do or was that to pay for renovations?

I'm sure this wasn't your intention but you've made yourself sound like an unbelievably awful person.

I think people also mix up the people genuinely existing solely on benefits with those who are supplementing their income.

@Iwantmyoldnameback

It still kinda reads like it’s good enough for you to get on the property ladder but not people in council houses shouldn’t have that luxury, they struggle too even with RTB