Page 12 | To feel annoyed that those on UC have more disposable income

nappyvalley2024 · 2024-02-02T06:07:02+00:00

Myself and DH both work full time and have one child in nursery that we are paying for. We have a household income of just under £100k. After taxes, mortgage, student loan, NI, pension deductions and bills we are not actually left with a huge amount of disposable income. We are in the south east. Brother in law and his partner have just had their first baby and announced that SIL will not be returning to work for at least 3 years. BIL earns roughly £30k and they live in social housing (lucky them). They will get around £900 a month in UC + no childcare bill. So whilst we are running around like headless chickens trying to keep on top of things and juggle professional jobs, house renovations and parenting. My SIL will have the pleasure of sitting at home with no stress enjoying her baby. (SIL is known to be very lazy and also took the whole of her pregnancy off sick due to anxiety.) At this point I just feel so deflated, and am wondering what the point is of working hard and being self sufficient. Funny thing is in laws think we are the lucky ones, when I don't actually think we are here. The system needs to change as there is no incentive to work.

CattyMcTat · 02/02/2024 09:19

Comparison is the their of joy OP.

I guess the reality is that it doesn't matter how much money you have OP, you have an unhappy life. It doesn't matter how much more money you throw at it, you need to make actual changes.

Scale back on socialising if you are seeing it as a chore rather than downtime.

Why is everything left to you? Why isn't your husband helping out? If he is lazy get him to help out more or leave him.

Scale back on the play dates and clubs.

You've said you'd be happy living in a social housing property inherited from parents. So presumably you'd be happy living in a dated house decorated by a now deceased person ? So cancel the renovation.

Muddywalks34 · 02/02/2024 09:19

At some point in the future you will
have a house you own outright, you will be able to retire with good pensions and be living a much better more secure life than your SIL. Suck it up, worth hard and you will one day reap the rewards of that. Building a decent life for your family is of course going to be tough. I did it for years, coming upto 50 now, mortgage free, healthy pensions and early retirement is on the cards. Yes getting here was hard work but I certainly don’t envy any of my peers who took the easy route. I can’t imagine anything worse than retiring on a state pension in a house I don’t own, having nothing to pass down to my children when I go.

Simonjt · 02/02/2024 09:21

nappyvalley2024 · 02/02/2024 06:55

Juggling:
Full time job x2. + working in evenings
Social commitments
Appointments
Workmen/quotes - people constantly coming in and out the house.
Child's play dates and weekend activities
Washing
Cleaning
Food shopping
Keeping on top of life admin - friends and relatives birthdays, baby showers, weddings etc.
bedtime routine

I literally don't have time to breathe from 7am until 23.00

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Thats just normal life, I did it as a lone paret, breathing was certainly not an issue, neither was downtime.

Mambo19866 · 02/02/2024 09:31

CakedUpHigh · 02/02/2024 08:29

A couple of things:
NHS dentists are like gold dust so getting free care is almost impossible.
Council Tax benefit no longer covers the whole bill.
Energy companies don't offer cheap gas and electricity to benefit claimants, quite the opposite, they're often put on expensive pre-payment tariffs when they get behind with their bill!
They don't get half price broadband, compared like for like, it's about a 20% discount. If you don't live near a PDSA pet hospital you can't get free treatment for a pet.
Social housing rents are often now set at local housing allowance rates which is the maximum amount you can get in housing benefit for a PRIVATE rental. And the 'benefits' of having social housing set at market rate...? A 2 year tenancy in which you will have to supply your own carpets and large kitchen appliances! But this is irrelevant as social housing isn't available to most people on benefits now anyway.

So even the benefits of being on benefits don't really exist anymore!

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Ffs just google it bt offer half price broadband 20 pound a month for those on benefits. Ask ovo about their social tier tariff it exists im still using it ffs.

DiamondsArentFood · 02/02/2024 09:31

Wasbedeudetetdas · 02/02/2024 09:08

I hope you are getting all the help you are entitled to because that sounds like a lot of of 'normal' things you are going without - if you don't mind me asking, are you having to pay a lot extra on rent where you live? No worries if you think me nosey because I kind of am. I know the COL is hitting everyone, but it seems like you have shaver pretty much every cost right back, but your (limited) income must be going on something? I agree though that some folk have no idea how tight it is to be surviving on a benefit like UC, and to suggest someone on £100K is worse off than someone on UC is absolutely wild!

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It goes on general living tbh.

I think some people think that UC is just for food and such, but it isn't, it includes rent.

If you take out the rental element, you're left with:

An adult over 25 gets £368.74
If they have a kid they get £315.00 (born before 6 April 2017)
£269.58 (born on or after 6 April 2017

That's not a lot for a single person and a child to live well.

Then if the housing element doesn't cover all the rent, they have to top it up and it leaves even less.

I can't imagine many people on MN wanting to change from earning £100k a household to having £369 + £315 = £684 a month to pay their bills.
I'd imagine that would barely cover 1/3rd some people's monthly expenditures. (I've seen some people say they spend £200+ on food a week)

Sunshine322 · 02/02/2024 09:32

suspiriana · 02/02/2024 08:43

How is OP better off than SIL?

She might eventually have an "asset" but she will have paid huge amounts of money for it (from post-taxed income), will have to pay for her own housing renovations, maintenance etc. If she falls on hard times she will have to sell up and downsize (and pay £££ stamp duty again). If she loses her job and can't pay the mortgage she will have to sell up and downsize (and pay stamp duty). Benefits won't pay her mortgage, only possibly some mortgage interest so she would have to pay off the capital. She has no security of tenure (see points above). She doesn't get to live in central London and probably has a much smaller home than SIL in comparison to what she is paying in mortgage costs (which are really high since interest rates have increased).

In contrast, SIL has;

Massively subsidised housing in prime central London, a secure tenancy which means she doesn't have to worry about being evicted or not being able to pay the mortgage as if husband loses his job UC will continue to pay the rent and being evicted is as likely as being struck by lightning in social housing, all renovations done for free by the council (brand new kitchen every xx number of years), no care home fees in later life, no inheritance tax if house is worth over a certain amount as they don't own it, can pass on the tenancy as an inheritance with no inheritance tax to pay. They basically have the equivalent of a million pound home that is theirs for life with all the benefits of home ownership and none of the burdens.

The husband can also take a lower paid job as they don't have a mortgage to cover and still get topped up handsomely in benefits.

Seems to me that actually OP is completely correct and there is absolutely no incentive to better oneself. Sounds like SIL and BIL are actually the rich ones.

Sil and her husband are paying £1000 a month rent, possibly over a period of 40 years and that is a huge amount of ‘dead’ money. Im definitely not sold on the idea that sil is better off.

TeaKitten · 02/02/2024 09:33

nappyvalley2024 · 02/02/2024 08:02

The day she found out she was pregnant was the day she got her sick note and didn't work for 9 months.

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Not sure why you keep wanting to reconfirm that you think she’s lying. You still just sound jealous and unpleasant.

DiamondsArentFood · 02/02/2024 09:39

Mambo19866 · 02/02/2024 09:31

Ffs just google it bt offer half price broadband 20 pound a month for those on benefits. Ask ovo about their social tier tariff it exists im still using it ffs.

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Can you link to the OVO tariff?

I just.looked and the cheapest quote they offer is £147 a month, I currently.pay £69 with octopus.

AcridAndStanLee · 02/02/2024 09:41

DiamondsArentFood · 02/02/2024 08:24

Op is very bitter, but ultimately, if they can live and have spare income on 1/3rd your income, you're doing something wrong.. or you actually have spare income really... But you pay a lot of it to a pension or savings every month.

OP has childcare that SIL does not. I'll bet that's the difference. It really does add up.

Lougle · 02/02/2024 09:42

MorningSunshineSparkles · 02/02/2024 07:59

There is no chance in hell they’re getting £900 a month in universal credits unless one of them is severely disabled. You might want to check your earning cap limits for benefits too. So fucking sick of the lies that are spread, OP is just another idiot trying to benefit bash. 10 mins googling would tell anyone what they needed to know.

If you had googled, or even read the full thread, you would have seen that they will be getting £900 on UC. It's because their rent is high.

Iwantmyoldnameback · 02/02/2024 09:45

Surely SIL won't be expected to look for work if she has anxiety issues?

Birch101 · 02/02/2024 09:54

Honestly I see where you are coming from.

My only advice is that you will receive some funded childcare at some point so will save a little money, invest any savings wisely and perhaps in the long term adjust your outgoing as it seems as household you earn a decent amount.

One would hope your decisions to work hard will provide you children and yourselves with more experiences and opportunities in the long run.

I do hope that if funded hours kick off and work without a system collapse that parents of 1yr + lose entitlement to certain benefits as they should be able to work part time.

WithACatLikeTread · 02/02/2024 09:56

Birch101 · 02/02/2024 09:54

Honestly I see where you are coming from.

My only advice is that you will receive some funded childcare at some point so will save a little money, invest any savings wisely and perhaps in the long term adjust your outgoing as it seems as household you earn a decent amount.

One would hope your decisions to work hard will provide you children and yourselves with more experiences and opportunities in the long run.

I do hope that if funded hours kick off and work without a system collapse that parents of 1yr + lose entitlement to certain benefits as they should be able to work part time.

Are you aware of the lack of childcare places at the moment?

ChallahPlaiter · 02/02/2024 09:58

Birch101 · 02/02/2024 09:54

Honestly I see where you are coming from.

My only advice is that you will receive some funded childcare at some point so will save a little money, invest any savings wisely and perhaps in the long term adjust your outgoing as it seems as household you earn a decent amount.

One would hope your decisions to work hard will provide you children and yourselves with more experiences and opportunities in the long run.

I do hope that if funded hours kick off and work without a system collapse that parents of 1yr + lose entitlement to certain benefits as they should be able to work part time.

You hope that people with tiny children have their lives made more difficult?

What a horrible thing to say.

WithACatLikeTread · 02/02/2024 10:01

Your SIL won't be entitled to funded childcare or the 85% UC will pay because she doesn't work.

Dweetfidilove · 02/02/2024 10:03

suspiriana · 02/02/2024 08:43

How is OP better off than SIL?

She might eventually have an "asset" but she will have paid huge amounts of money for it (from post-taxed income), will have to pay for her own housing renovations, maintenance etc. If she falls on hard times she will have to sell up and downsize (and pay £££ stamp duty again). If she loses her job and can't pay the mortgage she will have to sell up and downsize (and pay stamp duty). Benefits won't pay her mortgage, only possibly some mortgage interest so she would have to pay off the capital. She has no security of tenure (see points above). She doesn't get to live in central London and probably has a much smaller home than SIL in comparison to what she is paying in mortgage costs (which are really high since interest rates have increased).

In contrast, SIL has;

Massively subsidised housing in prime central London, a secure tenancy which means she doesn't have to worry about being evicted or not being able to pay the mortgage as if husband loses his job UC will continue to pay the rent and being evicted is as likely as being struck by lightning in social housing, all renovations done for free by the council (brand new kitchen every xx number of years), no care home fees in later life, no inheritance tax if house is worth over a certain amount as they don't own it, can pass on the tenancy as an inheritance with no inheritance tax to pay. They basically have the equivalent of a million pound home that is theirs for life with all the benefits of home ownership and none of the burdens.

The husband can also take a lower paid job as they don't have a mortgage to cover and still get topped up handsomely in benefits.

Seems to me that actually OP is completely correct and there is absolutely no incentive to better oneself. Sounds like SIL and BIL are actually the rich ones.

Sounds like SIL and BIL are actually the rich ones.

Shortsighted view.

—OP is going renovations to improve value her property- something in-laws likely cannot afford to do.

OP already has disposable income (renovations are not free) and will have more post childcare / pay increases etc. Again, something her in-laws will likely not enjoy unless the husbands wakes up a high-flyer…

At some point their UC entitlement will decrease - when the children are no longer dependents. At that time as well, UC will also take a deduction for the now non-dependent children. By this point (health and opportunities permitting), the OP and her husband will be earning amounts unimaginable for the in-laws.

Old age -OP now owns her home outright and has choice over relocating/downsizing/care options etc, plus a healthy private pension and state pension. In-laws have fewer choices around all those areas and tiny private pension / state pension. Benefits are now means tested based on said pensions. Care options limited (council care homes are apparently going bankrupt everywhere).

We could go on all day and still find the in-laws are not the rich ones 🙄.

C8H10N4O2 · 02/02/2024 10:03

Mambo19866 · 02/02/2024 09:31

Ffs just google it bt offer half price broadband 20 pound a month for those on benefits. Ask ovo about their social tier tariff it exists im still using it ffs.

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Can't comment on the ovo tariff but the BT broadband deal is not half price. The service included is only the most basic service so for a claimant doing some work its discount of about a fiver before VAT

If there is no income at all there is a £15 deal but the hypothetical DB wouldn't qualify as he is in work.

DiamondsArentFood · 02/02/2024 10:04

I do hope that if funded hours kick off and work without a system collapse that parents of 1yr + lose entitlement to certain benefits as they should be able to work part time.

Let's think that through:
The government announced that in April 2025, certain benefits will cease for parents of children over 1 as those children should be in funded hours and the parent should be working.

Suddenly 1000s upon 1000s of children need funded places. Where are those places coming from?

Suddenly 1000s of parents are expected to find work, part time hours at least.
Where are those jobs coming from?

All those parents that are now forced into part time labour are paid NMW and need UC to top up their wages which puts them on a path to having their SIL start jealousy driven threads about them on MN.
Where are all those SILs coming from?

I don't think you thought that through... Just spewed bile..

Wasbedeudetetdas · 02/02/2024 10:04

@DiamondsArentFood yes, I am aware of how it's calculated and what it is supposed to go on, I just feel that it must be hard to be struggling with so much. I hope things improve for you. I know that ridiculous rent payments can be a real issue for many folk on UC, even those in part time or full time work.

arethereanyleftatall · 02/02/2024 10:15

I was you 20 years ago op. (Just making a guess!)
Now I'm nearly 50, my beautiful house, chosen by me in my favourite area, is nearly paid off.
I reckon got two more years of full time work, and then my house will be 'free'. I can then go part time. And I, hopefully but I know maybe not, have a fabulous asset for my children.
Compared to my friend who has always rented. In two years time, she will still have to pay the £2000 a month she pays in rent.
The government will look after her in retirement I hope.
But the pay back for working hard like you are early doors, will hopefully manifest in your fifties.

GettingStuffed · 02/02/2024 10:17

Remember UC doesn't usually cover the entire rent.

Freakinfraser · 02/02/2024 10:19

DiamondsArentFood · 02/02/2024 10:04

I do hope that if funded hours kick off and work without a system collapse that parents of 1yr + lose entitlement to certain benefits as they should be able to work part time.

Let's think that through:
The government announced that in April 2025, certain benefits will cease for parents of children over 1 as those children should be in funded hours and the parent should be working.

Suddenly 1000s upon 1000s of children need funded places. Where are those places coming from?

Suddenly 1000s of parents are expected to find work, part time hours at least.
Where are those jobs coming from?

All those parents that are now forced into part time labour are paid NMW and need UC to top up their wages which puts them on a path to having their SIL start jealousy driven threads about them on MN.
Where are all those SILs coming from?

I don't think you thought that through... Just spewed bile..

To be fair there are plenty of unskilled low income min wage jobs available more than people looking for work, and if you don’t work then you will have work given to you or your benefits stopped.

and more nurseries and child minders will open up to meet demand.

Moreorlessmentallystable · 02/02/2024 10:20

shewasrooting · 02/02/2024 06:10

your SIL would be screwed if it all went tits up

and i suspect they don’t have a penny between them in the pensions or savings

Yeah but they will get their care paid for when they are old and I would t put it past me they will make estate pensions means tested int he future and benefits all their life as they are "poor", kids uniforms, energy payments/grants, cost of living payment, help with rent, the OP is "rich" on paper with a high income so will get zero help.

CakedUpHigh · 02/02/2024 10:20

Mambo19866 · 02/02/2024 09:31

Ffs just google it bt offer half price broadband 20 pound a month for those on benefits. Ask ovo about their social tier tariff it exists im still using it ffs.

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Ffs if you can get broadband for £25 on the open market, £20 is a 20% discount, not half price. Who pays £40 for broadband?
I will admit I'm not with Ovo so I don't really know what they offer, but each company has their own scheme and they're often only available to those who are already behind with their bills. Many energy companies are still forcing expensive pre-payment meters on vulnerable customers, it's been extensively covered by the press ffs.

Ελλe · 02/02/2024 10:25

I get where you are coming from and sometimes feel a bit like this myself - DH and I work really hard and have a teeny tiny house (we live in a stupid expensive area) while BIL and his girlfriend had five kids in quick succession, she’s never worked and they get a massive council house in a central location. A house we could only dream of the likes. It’s annoying but I would rather carry on knowing I was honest and hard working and my kids got those qualities.

I do however think describing someone with clearly terrible anxiety as lazy is a disgusting attitude and you perhaps need to educate yourself.

focus on yourselves - it’s not worth the energy