Page 11 | To feel annoyed that those on UC have more disposable income

nappyvalley2024 · 2024-02-02T06:07:02+00:00

Myself and DH both work full time and have one child in nursery that we are paying for. We have a household income of just under £100k. After taxes, mortgage, student loan, NI, pension deductions and bills we are not actually left with a huge amount of disposable income. We are in the south east. Brother in law and his partner have just had their first baby and announced that SIL will not be returning to work for at least 3 years. BIL earns roughly £30k and they live in social housing (lucky them). They will get around £900 a month in UC + no childcare bill. So whilst we are running around like headless chickens trying to keep on top of things and juggle professional jobs, house renovations and parenting. My SIL will have the pleasure of sitting at home with no stress enjoying her baby. (SIL is known to be very lazy and also took the whole of her pregnancy off sick due to anxiety.) At this point I just feel so deflated, and am wondering what the point is of working hard and being self sufficient. Funny thing is in laws think we are the lucky ones, when I don't actually think we are here. The system needs to change as there is no incentive to work.

DiamondsArentFood · 02/02/2024 08:47

I'm on UC for just me and DD

I do get help with rent, I believe they'll only help interest only mortgage payers and only for a limited time.

I don't get free Dental, DD does as she's young.

I don't get cheap electric and gas but Octopus have sent me an electric blanket.

I do get money off water.

I pay council tax, albeit reduced to £40 a month.

BT do offer a £20 a month internet that I have, it's ok for what I use.

I have no idea about tax free car stuff as I had to give up my car as couldn't afford petrol.

NotQuiteNorma · 02/02/2024 08:48

suspiriana · 02/02/2024 08:43

How is OP better off than SIL?

She might eventually have an "asset" but she will have paid huge amounts of money for it (from post-taxed income), will have to pay for her own housing renovations, maintenance etc. If she falls on hard times she will have to sell up and downsize (and pay £££ stamp duty again). If she loses her job and can't pay the mortgage she will have to sell up and downsize (and pay stamp duty). Benefits won't pay her mortgage, only possibly some mortgage interest so she would have to pay off the capital. She has no security of tenure (see points above). She doesn't get to live in central London and probably has a much smaller home than SIL in comparison to what she is paying in mortgage costs (which are really high since interest rates have increased).

In contrast, SIL has;

Massively subsidised housing in prime central London, a secure tenancy which means she doesn't have to worry about being evicted or not being able to pay the mortgage as if husband loses his job UC will continue to pay the rent and being evicted is as likely as being struck by lightning in social housing, all renovations done for free by the council (brand new kitchen every xx number of years), no care home fees in later life, no inheritance tax if house is worth over a certain amount as they don't own it, can pass on the tenancy as an inheritance with no inheritance tax to pay. They basically have the equivalent of a million pound home that is theirs for life with all the benefits of home ownership and none of the burdens.

The husband can also take a lower paid job as they don't have a mortgage to cover and still get topped up handsomely in benefits.

Seems to me that actually OP is completely correct and there is absolutely no incentive to better oneself. Sounds like SIL and BIL are actually the rich ones.

That old chestnut again? Council housing is not 'subsidised'.

Freakinfraser · 02/02/2024 08:49

suspiriana · 02/02/2024 08:43

How is OP better off than SIL?

She might eventually have an "asset" but she will have paid huge amounts of money for it (from post-taxed income), will have to pay for her own housing renovations, maintenance etc. If she falls on hard times she will have to sell up and downsize (and pay £££ stamp duty again). If she loses her job and can't pay the mortgage she will have to sell up and downsize (and pay stamp duty). Benefits won't pay her mortgage, only possibly some mortgage interest so she would have to pay off the capital. She has no security of tenure (see points above). She doesn't get to live in central London and probably has a much smaller home than SIL in comparison to what she is paying in mortgage costs (which are really high since interest rates have increased).

In contrast, SIL has;

Massively subsidised housing in prime central London, a secure tenancy which means she doesn't have to worry about being evicted or not being able to pay the mortgage as if husband loses his job UC will continue to pay the rent and being evicted is as likely as being struck by lightning in social housing, all renovations done for free by the council (brand new kitchen every xx number of years), no care home fees in later life, no inheritance tax if house is worth over a certain amount as they don't own it, can pass on the tenancy as an inheritance with no inheritance tax to pay. They basically have the equivalent of a million pound home that is theirs for life with all the benefits of home ownership and none of the burdens.

The husband can also take a lower paid job as they don't have a mortgage to cover and still get topped up handsomely in benefits.

Seems to me that actually OP is completely correct and there is absolutely no incentive to better oneself. Sounds like SIL and BIL are actually the rich ones.

Far from it. The childcare fees the op pays will go. It’s short term only, the mortgage reduces every single year as they pay it off. Equity grows every single year too. They can downsize at any time and take the capital out, thus enjoying the equity in lifestyle, should they choose, they have pensions that will see them living far from a frugal life in retirement, and they will have a sizeable asset to leave their kids.

living a life on benefits doesn’t come close to that.

quisensoucie · 02/02/2024 08:50

I literally don't have time to breathe from 7am until 23.00

Oh my goodness @nappyvalley2024 - how awful for you; how does that work for cell respiration and all the other little things our bodies need oxygen for? how do you get rid of the carbon dioxide accumulation?

LittleLeggs · 02/02/2024 08:51

I'd rather be in your position though.

Also social housing rent can still be expensive-have you even factored their rent in?. My parents are retired, living in social housing (no benefits ever in their life) and their rent still goes up. They pay for their rent with their savings and pensions which aren't much- they are in a much more vulnerable position than I want to be at that age.

Beezknees · 02/02/2024 08:51

suspiriana · 02/02/2024 08:43

How is OP better off than SIL?

She might eventually have an "asset" but she will have paid huge amounts of money for it (from post-taxed income), will have to pay for her own housing renovations, maintenance etc. If she falls on hard times she will have to sell up and downsize (and pay £££ stamp duty again). If she loses her job and can't pay the mortgage she will have to sell up and downsize (and pay stamp duty). Benefits won't pay her mortgage, only possibly some mortgage interest so she would have to pay off the capital. She has no security of tenure (see points above). She doesn't get to live in central London and probably has a much smaller home than SIL in comparison to what she is paying in mortgage costs (which are really high since interest rates have increased).

In contrast, SIL has;

Massively subsidised housing in prime central London, a secure tenancy which means she doesn't have to worry about being evicted or not being able to pay the mortgage as if husband loses his job UC will continue to pay the rent and being evicted is as likely as being struck by lightning in social housing, all renovations done for free by the council (brand new kitchen every xx number of years), no care home fees in later life, no inheritance tax if house is worth over a certain amount as they don't own it, can pass on the tenancy as an inheritance with no inheritance tax to pay. They basically have the equivalent of a million pound home that is theirs for life with all the benefits of home ownership and none of the burdens.

The husband can also take a lower paid job as they don't have a mortgage to cover and still get topped up handsomely in benefits.

Seems to me that actually OP is completely correct and there is absolutely no incentive to better oneself. Sounds like SIL and BIL are actually the rich ones.

Because she has financial stability.

SIL will have to pay rent her entire life.

Wasbedeudetetdas · 02/02/2024 08:53

May I suggest you focus on living your own life and not comparing it with others.
May I also suggest that attempting to start a benefits thread is a bit pointless, as there are loads of those on MN already - just pick the one that suits how judgmental you actually are and crack on.

suspiriana · 02/02/2024 08:54

Beezknees · 02/02/2024 08:51

Because she has financial stability.

SIL will have to pay rent her entire life.

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She won't it will be paid by UC or housing benefit and she will get pension credit if she doesn't have enough credits for a pension.

Freakinfraser · 02/02/2024 08:55

quisensoucie · 02/02/2024 08:50

I literally don't have time to breathe from 7am until 23.00

Oh my goodness @nappyvalley2024 - how awful for you; how does that work for cell respiration and all the other little things our bodies need oxygen for? how do you get rid of the carbon dioxide accumulation?

Agree the op did go a bit ott with the whole juggling weddings and social events and basic adulting really

5128gap · 02/02/2024 08:56

You need to think of the long game. You have two careers and are buying a house, so in time your income and assets will exceed your in laws by a country mile.

ilovesooty · 02/02/2024 08:56

ArtG · 02/02/2024 06:35

“Why is someone getting something I don’t get? It must stop immediately.” Seems to me to be the attitude at the root of much of the misery in this country.

Absolutely. Fuelled by politicians and the media too.

Freakinfraser · 02/02/2024 08:56

suspiriana · 02/02/2024 08:54

She won't it will be paid by UC or housing benefit and she will get pension credit if she doesn't have enough credits for a pension.

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I feel really sad for you, you genuinely seem to think a life on benefits is something aspirational and cannot see how the ops costs will reduce over time and the benefit it will bring to their lives

Wasbedeudetetdas · 02/02/2024 08:57

quisensoucie · 02/02/2024 08:50

I literally don't have time to breathe from 7am until 23.00

Oh my goodness @nappyvalley2024 - how awful for you; how does that work for cell respiration and all the other little things our bodies need oxygen for? how do you get rid of the carbon dioxide accumulation?

Excellent response.
I love when people use literally in completely the wrong way.
Some of the MN responses do suggest lack of oxygen to the brain though.

Beezknees · 02/02/2024 08:57

suspiriana · 02/02/2024 08:54

She won't it will be paid by UC or housing benefit and she will get pension credit if she doesn't have enough credits for a pension.

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And a state pension is less than £200 a week. Yes, sounds great.

Rosieposy89 · 02/02/2024 08:58

How do you not have disposable income? Our household income is about half yours and we have money left over. You have probably made choices that are above your means.

DonnaBanana · 02/02/2024 08:59

It sounds like the real problem is the other woman doesn’t have to work and OP does. If it’s that annoying to you, become a SAHM and get your man to step up!

forcedfun · 02/02/2024 09:00

suspiriana · 02/02/2024 08:54

She won't it will be paid by UC or housing benefit and she will get pension credit if she doesn't have enough credits for a pension.

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I think it's complacent to make any assumptions about how state pensions will look in 20 plus years time, with an aging population

Hhhh80 · 02/02/2024 09:01

@nappyvalley2024 she won't be able to have 3 years off. They'll be changing the rules so parents have to look for work from the baby being 9 months because they're rolling out free childcare from 9 months. So they'll be on her case from the baby being less than a year old.

DiamondsArentFood · 02/02/2024 09:01

How is OP better off than SIL?

As I said up thread, I'm on UC.

I don't use heating - can't afford it.
I don't have holidays - can't afford it.
I only eat once a day - main meal when DD is home.
I use as little electric as possible which often means I sit in one room without a TV or radio etc and use the phone battery - as I'm doing now.
I don't buy new clothes - can't afford them.
I don't have savings - can't afford them.
I don't have a pension - can't afford it.
I dont have a car - can't afford it.

But.. the worst thing about being on UC?
You're at the mercy of the government who may cut, sanction, punish you because they see it as a vote winner.
It appeals to fuckwits who think that people on "Welfare" are scrounging lazy entitled scum.

Mumsnet have a lot of threads bashing UC claimants, welfare claimants, benefit claimants.

How is OP better off than SIL?
They're households has an income that means they're earning more than 90% of the population, they're in the top 8% of earners according to the ONS.

Unless they're complete fools, they should have a VERY good quality of life. If they don't.. well, instead of criticising their SIL choices... They should start looking at their own.

Freakinfraser · 02/02/2024 09:02

Hhhh80 · 02/02/2024 09:01

@nappyvalley2024 she won't be able to have 3 years off. They'll be changing the rules so parents have to look for work from the baby being 9 months because they're rolling out free childcare from 9 months. So they'll be on her case from the baby being less than a year old.

That’s true, the rules changed. And they will force her into community work if she doesn’t get a job or stop her benefits

CakedUpHigh · 02/02/2024 09:03

StopTheQtipWhenTheresResistance · 02/02/2024 07:01

@Mambo19866 Fair enough, it's just not something I've ever heard of but then again, I've never owned a house so not had to look into it. Maybe it's changed over the years.

You can get a loan to help cover mortgage costs, they do not just pay them although they used to. Until fairly recently they used to cover the interest after 3 months of unemployment.

Freakinfraser · 02/02/2024 09:06

DiamondsArentFood · 02/02/2024 09:01

How is OP better off than SIL?

As I said up thread, I'm on UC.

I don't use heating - can't afford it.
I don't have holidays - can't afford it.
I only eat once a day - main meal when DD is home.
I use as little electric as possible which often means I sit in one room without a TV or radio etc and use the phone battery - as I'm doing now.
I don't buy new clothes - can't afford them.
I don't have savings - can't afford them.
I don't have a pension - can't afford it.
I dont have a car - can't afford it.

But.. the worst thing about being on UC?
You're at the mercy of the government who may cut, sanction, punish you because they see it as a vote winner.
It appeals to fuckwits who think that people on "Welfare" are scrounging lazy entitled scum.

Mumsnet have a lot of threads bashing UC claimants, welfare claimants, benefit claimants.

How is OP better off than SIL?
They're households has an income that means they're earning more than 90% of the population, they're in the top 8% of earners according to the ONS.

Unless they're complete fools, they should have a VERY good quality of life. If they don't.. well, instead of criticising their SIL choices... They should start looking at their own.

Well said. I’m rather dismayed by the “life on benefits is golden” posters. “Way better than earning a hundred grand a year and working, owning your own home, having a private pension ” such nonsense.

I grew up in a council house on benefits and it’s shit. We were skint. No way round it, and now with the rule changes, a person who can work, choosing a life on benefits will be nearly impossible. And relying on state pension is no walk in the park either.

Wasbedeudetetdas · 02/02/2024 09:08

DiamondsArentFood · 02/02/2024 09:01

How is OP better off than SIL?

As I said up thread, I'm on UC.

I don't use heating - can't afford it.
I don't have holidays - can't afford it.
I only eat once a day - main meal when DD is home.
I use as little electric as possible which often means I sit in one room without a TV or radio etc and use the phone battery - as I'm doing now.
I don't buy new clothes - can't afford them.
I don't have savings - can't afford them.
I don't have a pension - can't afford it.
I dont have a car - can't afford it.

But.. the worst thing about being on UC?
You're at the mercy of the government who may cut, sanction, punish you because they see it as a vote winner.
It appeals to fuckwits who think that people on "Welfare" are scrounging lazy entitled scum.

Mumsnet have a lot of threads bashing UC claimants, welfare claimants, benefit claimants.

How is OP better off than SIL?
They're households has an income that means they're earning more than 90% of the population, they're in the top 8% of earners according to the ONS.

Unless they're complete fools, they should have a VERY good quality of life. If they don't.. well, instead of criticising their SIL choices... They should start looking at their own.

I hope you are getting all the help you are entitled to because that sounds like a lot of of 'normal' things you are going without - if you don't mind me asking, are you having to pay a lot extra on rent where you live? No worries if you think me nosey because I kind of am. I know the COL is hitting everyone, but it seems like you have shaver pretty much every cost right back, but your (limited) income must be going on something? I agree though that some folk have no idea how tight it is to be surviving on a benefit like UC, and to suggest someone on £100K is worse off than someone on UC is absolutely wild!

Trinity65 · 02/02/2024 09:08

Do We?

That's news to Me !!

funinthesun19 · 02/02/2024 09:13

Household income of 100k and you still don’t have more disposable income than someone on UC? I thought you were going to say you’re on a low income but earn just over the threshold for claiming UC.

Your post just takes the absolute piss out of low income households because you actually think you’re in the same boat, don’t you?