To feel annoyed that those on UC have more disposable income

[nappyvalley2024]

Myself and DH both work full time and have one child in nursery that we are paying for. We have a household income of just under £100k. After taxes, mortgage, student loan, NI, pension deductions and bills we are not actually left with a huge amount of disposable income. We are in the south east.

Brother in law and his partner have just had their first baby and announced that SIL will not be returning to work for at least 3 years. BIL earns roughly £30k and they live in social housing (lucky them). They will get around £900 a month in UC + no childcare bill.

So whilst we are running around like headless chickens trying to keep on top of things and juggle professional jobs, house renovations and parenting. My SIL will have the pleasure of sitting at home with no stress enjoying her baby. (SIL is known to be very lazy and also took the whole of her pregnancy off sick due to anxiety.)

At this point I just feel so deflated, and am wondering what the point is of working hard and being self sufficient. Funny thing is in laws think we are the lucky ones, when I don't actually think we are here. The system needs to change as there is no incentive to work.

If you’re not happy with your own life, then focus on that. Blowing someone else’s candle out doesn’t make yours brighter.

You have both got jobs and a home and a healthy child. You live in a developed country which is a democracy. Things like nursery fees and student loan payments will not go on forever. Doing renovations will make your house more valuable so you can progress up the housing ladder if you want to, or just enable you to live in a really nice house. Lots of your juggling is really nice stuff which you choose to do- like socialising and buying people you love presents!

She will eventually have to find work. Social housing is not the be all and end all- if she gets black mould or nightmare neighbours it may well be a nightmare. If she wants to move she can’t just sell her house and relocate. Her pension entitlement is likely to be much lower. She is unlikely to be able to offer her kids the same opportunities as yours with one income and UC in the future. She also doesn’t have any job satisfaction or financial security in the meantime- and rules on UC change.

Can you really not see how lucky you are?

Save your ire, there's no way a woman got a 'sick note' (they aren't even called that) on the day she found out she was pregnant, for 9 months. Cancer patients don't even get one for their whole chemo, they have to be renewed. OP either doesn't know what really happened or she's exaggerating.

Same. We would be comfortable on that in the North of England.

Then stop complaining you have a mortgage to pay

What even is this thread?!

It's like someone decided to do a goody "squeezed middle v benefits" thread.

But their idea of "squeezed middle" is a family on £100k.
And their idea of a "lazy benefits claimant" is a SAHM with a partner earning £30K

Just wild....

They get universal credit too

i meant tight

Are the renovations essential? At least you are lucky to afford that. We own, get UC but can't afford new windows or the damp course.

The allowances for a couple with 2 children come to around £1k, add the rent gives total UC allowances of £2k ish.

Take home pay on £30k is around £2k a month. The first £379 is disregarded, leaving £1,621. 55% of that, approx £880, comes off the allowances, leaving £731 of UC payable.

Disclaimer: done from memory, without a calculator, so there may be errors. Oh, and assuming neither of the children have a disability.

Thats nasty

I think the 900 per month top ups could be correct couldn’t it? The £1000 rent would be half of his take home pay. Paying absolutely everything else on what is left wouldn’t be doable. Support with rent included in the claim perhaps?

Interesting you seem to know so much about how much UC they are getting when they wouldn't actually be getting the figure you quoted with your brother in laws income anyway. You're either making it up or talking out of your trouser leg. I wonder what else you've got wrong in your rush for envy. Lucky them that they have a council property? So where would you prefer they lived if they can't afford to buy? In a private rental belonging to someone like you on more than 3 times their income who can't afford to make ends meet? 🤣

Like they say, comparison is the thief of joy...

if You’re earning £30k and renting, you will be able to claim UC with one child as a couple

check it out if you think it’s incorrect

I'm just waiting for the next drip to be "lied about <something>" to get PIP for either the lazy SiL or the child. After all if she apparently "got herself signed off sick" for nine months the PIP assessment should be a breeze.

Op is very bitter, but ultimately, if they can live and have spare income on 1/3rd your income, you're doing something wrong.. or you actually have spare income really... But you pay a lot of it to a pension or savings every month.

It's quite ironic that it's not the lazy benefit scrounging sister in-law who is coming out of this looking like a complete arsehole.

it’s the image that the OP has gone on the entitlement website and tapped in what she knows about the finances of her in laws to find out what state benefits they get.

How bitter do you need to be to do that

A couple of things:
NHS dentists are like gold dust so getting free care is almost impossible.
Council Tax benefit no longer covers the whole bill.
Energy companies don't offer cheap gas and electricity to benefit claimants, quite the opposite, they're often put on expensive pre-payment tariffs when they get behind with their bill!
They don't get half price broadband, compared like for like, it's about a 20% discount. If you don't live near a PDSA pet hospital you can't get free treatment for a pet.
Social housing rents are often now set at local housing allowance rates which is the maximum amount you can get in housing benefit for a PRIVATE rental. And the 'benefits' of having social housing set at market rate...? A 2 year tenancy in which you will have to supply your own carpets and large kitchen appliances! But this is irrelevant as social housing isn't available to most people on benefits now anyway.

So even the benefits of being on benefits don't really exist anymore!

LHA rates don't apply to social housing.

As you only have a small mortgage, you could sell up, downsize to be mortgage-free then get on UC and be the same as your relatives. this is your first step - to recognise that your desired lifestyle is doable if you really wanted to choose it.

I recently gave up a high-paying job (peanuts by MN standards, only 50-60k) as I didn't want to be a headless chicken any more. Now live on a minimum wage job and savings.

If you sold your house or downsized, you could do that - if you wiped out all your savings in the process, you could even go on UC - although personally I prefer to work as I have no dependent children to look after.

It's really important to remember that you make your own life choices, and to focus on that, not on what someone else is doing, and believing they are somehow wrong and you are virtuous purely for your choices. It's disempowring and has you believing you are a prisoner and life is unfair.

Empowerment lies in recognising that if you don't like your own life choices to the point that you have to run down other people, you have the ability to change those choices.

Or alternatively, you can recognise that you prefer to keep on choosing the way you have already chosen.

A lot of these threads popping up lately, it makes one wonder.

You do NOT get all those things free unless you have an income of less than £7k from working. I work full time, get some UC and I pay full council tax with no discount apart from single person, and I pay for the dentist and prescriptions, also no discount on my energy bills or broadband. You have to be in real poverty to get those.

This...honestly can't believe you are comparing yourself to your SIL . You have a wealth of opportunities and many years of a lovely life ahead of you...yes childcare is horrifically expensive but it's only for a few years. Can't you see far apart you are ? You are earning a great salary between you. Sit down and reevaluate where you are at and what your priorities are. Don't waste your time on these pointless bitter thoughts.

You own a property, they don't.
You'll have good pensions, they won't.
You're earning £100k, they're not.
Look at your lifestyles, all those things you mention about holidays, weddings, parties, social commitments, yeah one by one they won't be doing that as they won't be able to afford it.

Comparison is the theif of joy, stay in your own lane.

How is OP better off than SIL?

She might eventually have an "asset" but she will have paid huge amounts of money for it (from post-taxed income), will have to pay for her own housing renovations, maintenance etc. If she falls on hard times she will have to sell up and downsize (and pay £££ stamp duty again). If she loses her job and can't pay the mortgage she will have to sell up and downsize (and pay stamp duty). Benefits won't pay her mortgage, only possibly some mortgage interest so she would have to pay off the capital. She has no security of tenure (see points above). She doesn't get to live in central London and probably has a much smaller home than SIL in comparison to what she is paying in mortgage costs (which are really high since interest rates have increased).

In contrast, SIL has;

Massively subsidised housing in prime central London, a secure tenancy which means she doesn't have to worry about being evicted or not being able to pay the mortgage as if husband loses his job UC will continue to pay the rent and being evicted is as likely as being struck by lightning in social housing, all renovations done for free by the council (brand new kitchen every xx number of years), no care home fees in later life, no inheritance tax if house is worth over a certain amount as they don't own it, can pass on the tenancy as an inheritance with no inheritance tax to pay. They basically have the equivalent of a million pound home that is theirs for life with all the benefits of home ownership and none of the burdens.

The husband can also take a lower paid job as they don't have a mortgage to cover and still get topped up handsomely in benefits.

Seems to me that actually OP is completely correct and there is absolutely no incentive to better oneself. Sounds like SIL and BIL are actually the rich ones.