To be furious at Brexit checks 'price you pay to be sovereign again'

[NoCloudsAllowed]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/31/uk-minister-andrea-leadsom-brexit-checks-price-you-pay-sovereign-state-again

Andrea Leadsom saying barrier checks are the price of sovereignty.

This is not what they promised, is it? The bare faced lies of it all. They've delayed introducing checks because they knew they couldn't square it with Leave campaign promises. In the end, the issue of NI was only solvable by these checks.

This is supposed to cost £330m a year. It will make food more expensive and supply less reliable. There is zero, absolutely zero, benefit to the country. It's just a direct detriment imposed because they can't accept the whole thing is a fuck up.

They never actually express what this sovereignty is supposed to do for us, or what was problematic about the EU rules. It's all on 'the principle of the thing'. Sovereignty won't feed hungry children, will it?

I think I'm just as piping mad about this as I was in 2016 - they're taking the whole country for fools.

Johnson lies

Do tell. Is it some coded insult.

Lorac23
just wait until you see what's coming with medication supply lines.... hope you and your family don't rely on any common drugs produced in Germany, say.

But hey, project fear, eh.

Appears to be project fear;

But the Association of the British Pharmaceutical Industry, which represents drug companies in the UK, denied the EU’s moves would necessarily worsen shortages in Britain.

David Watson, its director of patient access, said: “We recognise that, for a wide range of reasons, shortages do happen, and that we need to continue to work across borders to prevent and manage them for patients. We have no reason to think that the EU’s latest policies will adversely impact this ongoing challenge.
“The UK has its own well-rehearsed procedures in place to safeguard essential medicine stocks, working with companies.”

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2024/jan/25/eu-plan-medicine-stockpile-uk-record-shortages

I have had holiday home in France for over 20 years. I have always had to submit my passport and travel details before travel. Unless you are going at peak school holiday time it only takes a few mins more. I have queued for hours at euro tunnel at peak holiday times - long before ‘Brexit’ I now avoid school holiday times..

So why don't you become a politician? What is stopping you? It is very easy to criticise other people, but you won't become a politician yourself? Why not?

At least our politicians are prepared to do something unlike people like you who just like to criticise.

You aren't prepared to receive death threats but you expect other people to and then you just criticise them.

The UK could be so much better than it is.
And I think we damaged ourselves with leaving the EU.
We could have had a relationship like Norway with the EU.
But no, we just went full hog and left.

I bet many people don't quite know the other possibilities we could have had instead of a full Brexit.

We imposed barriers on trade and travel with our nearest neighbours with a massive economy.

There is just not enough available for those who need it

Bit like here then @couiza , there is a train of thought that we need to build lots and lots more houses, but too many would mean a dip in house prices and landlord profits, which simply wouldn't do, so we keep moaning about there not being enough and blaming those who need accommodation instead, seems to be working so far.

Let's watch this space, shall we?

@Clavinova

You are clearly convinced about Brexit
What facts would it take for you to change your mind?

You might like to take this test and see if it makes you think

A Quick Puzzle to Test Your Problem Solving - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

At least our politicians are prepared to do something unlike people like you who just like to criticise.

@IMustDoMoreExercise who are your politicians ? which country are your politicians in ? I am not sure the people of NI are as keen on their politicians, they only seem to be prepared to do something when their pay is cut by £14k , which to be fair would certainly focus my mind !

I am in England.

If the people in NI don't like their policians, then they should become policians themselves instead of just complaining.

I’m not saying that. I think it’s just a balance of what is the best option. Nothing is perfect. If you compare the UK before 2020 ( the withdrawal agreement )and now have you seen improvements?

@IMustDoMoreExercise "You actually live in Germany and don't see anything wrong with Jewish people and non-white people having to leave Germany because of the AfD????" ... "And when the AfD start re-patriating non-white and Jewish people, that will be ok will it?"

I don't live in Germany - I live close to Germany, speak German, have numerous German friends and follow German politics. Nothing that I have written in my posts suggests that I support AfD or their policies of re-patriating non-white and Jewish people - and for the record, I think that such a policy is abhorrent (and as abhorrent as the Conservatives' dog-whistle politics of attempting to send a few hundred fellow humans to Rwanda).

I'll repeat the thrust of my posts, which is that if you believe in democracy then you can't just ban any party of which you don't approve, and you can't pretend that a system that gives an elected dictatorship to a party that only has the support of 30% of the electorate, which is what FPTP does, is in any way democratic. I would have thought that someone fearing for the safety of Jewish people (and others) would understand the dangers of this.

"Can you name one European country apart from the UK that does not have a far-right party in government?"

Well - there's Belgium, Norway, Austria, Poland, Ireland and of course Germany (which has a coalition of the SPD, FDP and Greens). I stopped looking for more.

@IMustDoMoreExercise because it seems nowadays you have to be wealthy and well connected to be a politician. I am neither of those.

• It was the white working class uneducated that mostly fell for the lies. They loved Boris because he was "a good laugh" and Farage because he was photographed holding a pint of beer. Makes me fucking sick."

No. Freedom of movement ensured a never ending supply of cheap foreign labour which artificially depressed the price of unskilled labour. Since Brexit NMW has increased a lot. That is why the white working class voted for Brexit

But no-one knows what it would have been like if we hadn't left so we can't compare.

Maybe our farmers would be blockading the roads to London. Who knows?

Sorry, I meant in parliament, not in governement, my mistake.

We will have to agree to disagree as I don't think that PR is worth the risk of having to repatriate non-white and Jewish people.

Hasn't the vote for Brexit proven that people will follow like sheep even if they don't know what they are voting for? I don't want a far-right party to take hold in the UK like it has in France, Germany, NL etc.

Maybe our farmers would be blockading the roads to London. Who knows?

They might still do so

Because of issues like this for example
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-68111308

You certainly don't have to be wealthy, some MPs have come from very poor backgrounds.

You become well connected by getting involved in politics.

There is nothing stopping you at all.

We don't do protests like the French.

And no, we don't know what it would have been like.

But somehow, from what I understand, it seems that the standard of living in countries like Germany, the Netherlands, France is higher than in the UK.

@ilovebreadsauce "Freedom of movement ensured a never ending supply of cheap foreign labour which artificially depressed the price of unskilled labour."

Not so. The UK has a population imbalance - i.e. there are too few people of working age to do the necessary jobs, be that unskilled or skilled. Therefore a level of foreign labour was (and still is) always required. This has been the case for the last 70 years or more.

"Since Brexit NMW has increased a lot. That is why the white working class voted for Brexit"

NMW is a political decision - it is set by the government. There was never anything stopping the government from raising the NMW while the UK was in the EU if it was felt to be too low. Several members of the Conservative party actually want to abolish the minimum wage (and the Conservatives have been ideologically opposed to NMW from the start). The white working class (if indeed it is they who voted for Brexit) were conned - the Conservatives want to introduce a free market for labour, whereby people will be forced to take any job, at any wage and under any conditions, in order to compete with the low-wage and low-standards economies with whom the Conservatives are trying to do trade deals.

The thing is, we were told that this would happen and people chose to vote for it anyway. I couldn't believe that they did, but democracy means that people are free to make stupid decisions, so we all just have to suck it up.

I think there would be more significant concerns about imposing Brexit on Northern Ireland if they had voted to remain, but they voted to leave so presumably this is what they wanted, as none of it is unexpected.

cakeorwine
You are clearly convinced about Brexit
What facts would it take for you to change your mind?
You might like to take this test and see if it makes you think
A Quick Puzzle to Test Your Problem Solving - The New York Times

Here's a puzzle - I've just been reading another US publication which quotes the Guardian as suggesting that Brexit' has left the U.K. 'worse off than its neighbors' with regards to medicines shortages. However, looking at these reports from France, Germany and the Netherlands our 'neighbors' appear to be having more problems than us:

https://www.connexionfrance.com/article/French-news/Health/Shortages-of-4-000-medicines-in-France-what-risk-for-this-winter

https://www.euronews.com/health/2023/10/10/trying-to-find-solutions-worsening-drugs-shortage-is-leaving-pharmacists-and-patients-in-t

https://think.ing.com/opinions/dutch-medicine-shortage-continues-to-mount

https://english.news.cn/20230915/dda460b7eb3d4e879b423b76a39d99f7/c.html

Given that there are, in total, 650 MPs and there are millions of people who are strongly anti-Brexit, it's not the answer to just 'become an MP'

My DCs and I do everything we can to make our voices heard, that's all we can do. I write to my 30 year in office Tory MP, not swamping him but making a polite but strong point from time to time. He rarely answers unless I complain to ToryHQ and take it further. He was voted 650th out of the 650 for openness and responsiveness to his Constituents.

Vote vote vote, that's all I can say.

I was listening to the radio earlier and they aired a clip of Andrea being interviewed pre brexit and basically saying there will be no tariffs or extra costs post brext. lying cow