To be furious at Brexit checks 'price you pay to be sovereign again'

[NoCloudsAllowed]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/31/uk-minister-andrea-leadsom-brexit-checks-price-you-pay-sovereign-state-again

Andrea Leadsom saying barrier checks are the price of sovereignty.

This is not what they promised, is it? The bare faced lies of it all. They've delayed introducing checks because they knew they couldn't square it with Leave campaign promises. In the end, the issue of NI was only solvable by these checks.

This is supposed to cost £330m a year. It will make food more expensive and supply less reliable. There is zero, absolutely zero, benefit to the country. It's just a direct detriment imposed because they can't accept the whole thing is a fuck up.

They never actually express what this sovereignty is supposed to do for us, or what was problematic about the EU rules. It's all on 'the principle of the thing'. Sovereignty won't feed hungry children, will it?

I think I'm just as piping mad about this as I was in 2016 - they're taking the whole country for fools.

Forgive my ignorance but what does Britain actually have to "Check"?

Is it imports from EU? if so I'm puzzled as to why checks would be needed, as surely EU imports have met all criteria for safety, food safety, animal welfare etc.

Is it checks on the way out (exports), can't see why the recipient country wouldn't undertake that.

Is it part of a mutual agreement, UK import export trade agreement with EU.

I know, I know - I should look it up myself. Still curious, so please don't bite my head off and call me an idiot, many are baffled by all this bureaucracy that we were told would be long gone on our exit.

Uncontrolled mass immigration is an even more toxic issue now than it was back in 2016.

Which is hilarious really isn't it ? Brexit was about immigration and yet legal immigration figures are at record levels under the Tories and forecast to grow even higher. It's almost like it had nothing to do with the EU ?

@couiza We weren’t checking anything up until this week. So much for protecting our borders. The government has kicked it down the road something like 5 times, finally decided to implement it because ….? Who knows, may be there was a time limit.

Do you think enough people would vote for FOM though if given the option?

And yet according to many people on Mumsnet the Tories are "far right"! Lol.

I would not blame Brexit for the impasse in Northern Ireland just resolved. The DUP would have found some way to object to a Sinn Fein First Minister and used it to extract something from the UK government, even if there had not been Brexit.

Dymaxion
Which is hilarious really isn't it? Brexit was about immigration and yet legal immigration figures are at record levels under the Tories and forecast to grow even higher

Legal immigration is forecast to come down.

Legal immigration is forecast to come down.

Are you sure @Clavinova , I could swear it mentioned the population rising to 74 million due largely in part to legal migration, on the news this morning ?

@IMustDoMoreExercise "No system is perfect, but FPTP is better than most."

That is why no other country in Europe has FPTP, and why the UK is one of only two countries in Europe that do not use some form of Proportional Representation.

"Do you actually know anyone in France or Germany?"

As it happens, I do - having lived in Germany and in two other EU countries, and as I now live just 40 minutes from the German border and can see the news and follow what is happening there.

I know many Germans - and other Europeans. None can understand that the UK tolerates an electoral system that allows a party that obtained the votes of less than 30% of the electorate to have an absolute majority in Parliament. Few can understand why there are no alternative parties in Parliament, let alone in government Where I live, the government is made up of representatives from several parties, including the Greens. FPTP makes this impossible, giving most of the UK a bland choise between Dumb and Dumber. Even though the majority of UK voters voted for a party other than the Conservatives, they still had a majority and have been able to push through laws that are in no way beneficial to the country at large, all the while falsely claiming to be following "the will of the people."

I don't like the politics of some of the extreme parties - in the UK, Germany or anywhere else - but I see no sense in depriving myself of the option of voting for the party that best matches my views just because I don't like the views of someone else who might vote for a party that I don't approve of.

@couiza Forgive my ignorance but what does Britain actually have to "Check"?

Is it imports from EU? if so I'm puzzled as to why checks would be needed, as surely EU imports have met all criteria for safety, food safety, animal welfare etc.

Because the (Brexit) Trade and Cooperation Agreement establishes a trade border between the UK and the EU, and if the UK allows imports to enter the country from the EU without any checks, it also has to allow this for imports from all countries.

This in turn would present risks to UK biosecurity and to the quality of food and other products entering the country - from food treated with banned pesticides to meat with hormones; from sub-standard electrical goods to rip-off counterfeits.

As for EU standards - the UK government has made a great play about how the UK can diverge from EU standards and set its own requirements, and having done so, goods now need to be checked to ensure that they comply with the new UK regulations.

As much concern for stability in NI as ever on MN I see. I just want to preserve the GFA and have some semblance of government, even if it is the usual shower of incompetents.

@ColleenDonaghy DS asked me if the politicians got paid whilst they were off and not doing their job ? I said I thought that was probably the case, but wasn't sure. Did they ?

Roussette
My DD did Erasmus, she was lucky. It gave her such an opportunity The new Turing scheme is apparently a complete nightmare, no reciprocal arrangements and near impossible to study in Europe, but having to apply to Hong Kong, Canada instead

Around 10,000 Higher Education 'learner participants' were funded to European destinations 2023 - 2024;

https://www.turing-scheme.org.uk/funding-opportunities/funding-results-2023-to-2024/

I think you've sumed it up.

Of course they did.

Clavinova... nice try. There were over 40,000 to Spain in ONE year under Erasmus. Close behind were Italy (20,204), France (29,621) and Germany (30,964).
Makes your 10,000 look pretty poor.

Yes but their pay was recently cut. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-63880069

@Havanananana Thanks for that. I've a vague recollection of something to do with the WTO rules that might have impacted on the current checking situation - the most favoured Nation maybe, but I've probably got that all wrong, and it's purely a Trade Agreement UK/EU as you say.

In any event, leaving the EU has brought the headaches that many predicted and many others poo poohed with hubris. Who's laughing or crying now? And as for gaslighting by Brexiteers like Leadsom... well honestly.

Net migration is forecast to come down from the high figure quoted for 2022 -which is what I thought you were referring to.

I wouldn’t bet on that, if I were you. The UK retail, agriculture, hospitality, distribution and care sectors are all addicted to cheap migrant labour. Meanwhile, the government is paying out countless £billions in benefits to British people who refuse to work, citing various spurious ‘illnesses’ with no fear of sanctions.

There is zero political will in either the Tory or Labour parties to seriously tackle any of these things, so the current situation isn’t going to change.

Net migration is forecast to come down from the high figure quoted for 2022 -which is what I thought you were referring to.

So was net migration in 2023 a lot lower then ? and is going to continue to fall ? the news suggested that 6 million people would be added to the population of the UK by 2036 due to net migration, this doesn't sound like a big drop in numbers ?

Meanwhile, the government is paying out countless £billions in benefits to British people who refuse to work, citing various spurious ‘illnesses’ with no fear of sanctions.

@BarelyLiterate are you talking about pensioners ? Pensions making up the majority of the £billions paid out in benefits ?

@Clavinova

Just stop with these silly posts. The Turing scheme is an absolute failure compared to the Erasmus+ scheme.

Period.

According to the Guardian around 15,000 British university students took part in Erasmus each year;

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/dec/24/uk-students-lose-erasmus-membership-in-brexit-deal

Thank you. That was my point. A projected 41,000 Turing placements worldwide for 2023/2024 (please note 'projected') compared to 272,497 sent to just Europe in one year with Erasmus.