To not want to be sat near loud cackling women

[Ferretmad2]

What is it with groups of loud, cackling women these days? Third time I’ve eaten out recently and next to a table full of shouty, cackling women who seem to be in a contest of who can cackle the loudest. Doesn’t seem to matter whether it’s a posh place or not. I’m fed up of having to be sat near them whilst waiting for my food. Can’t move as we are in a table of 7. My three autistic children are completely silent! Feel like following my eldest child’s example and getting noise cancelling AirPods.

I once had to hear a group of woman talk about sex very loudly. I was very put off my food

You're half right there. "Cackling" is only used as insult for women, but men don't escape criticism either.

Men would be accused of "guffawing" and upper middle class or upper class men would be accused of "braying"

You can also guarantee it will be the group ordering "bubbles" and "nibbles" and wearing "something sparkly".

I don't think I've ever been annoyed by women laughing (not cackling, that implies they are witches!). However I've often been annoyed going out near a group of men as they are so so SO loud! How have they not learned to temper the volume of their voices? Makes me mad. I've often thought about leaving such places as then you literally cannot hear people who you are with. At Christmas a group of us going out resorted to shouting and lipreading in a London pub as the group of men there were not seated but standing behind our chairs, shouting. Zeroing in on cackling women sounds pretty sexist.

Port Talbot?

This thread is such a mix of classism, ageism, misogyny, paranoia and jealousy. People are 'performing' for you? You really believe that?

As for a PP citing Peter Hitchens as pinpointing this trend of 'empty laughter' - the misanthropic Peter Hitchens who admitted himself he had no sense of humour? That Peter Hitchens? Apt you should admire his views.

I live in London, work and socialise in London. I haven't noticed this trend of 'fake laughter' that is apparently so easily distinguished from 'joyful laughter'. No idea if our laughter is cackling or joyful. I don't notice strangers when we are out.

As for OP - your situation is clearly different to most, not sure what the answer is beyond choosing less busy times at restaurants.

If zeroing in on women is sexist surely so is zeroing in on men?

https://www.psychologicalscience.org/news/releases/ability-to-identify-genuine-laughter-transcends-culture.html

There is a difference between real and fake laughter and people can hear the difference better than chance. I'm wondering if many of those who say they don't hear fake laughter just haven't heard enough real, joyful laughter to be able to tell the difference. In some circles, fake laughter may have become normalised.

Sure, fake laughter is a thing. People often do a fake laugh to be polite, that is fairly obvious. It's not generally loud and ongoing though.

I doubt it applies to a table full of people enjoying themselves,for a whole evening.

This 💯

I can hear the difference and yes, it's been a few members of a large table before. There may be a natural laugh underneath with an loud exaggerated vocal element on top.

Regardless of what you call it I find very loud, screechy and very raucous laughter very intrusive, whether it is men or women. I just dislike very noisy places.

DHand I tend to avoid going out at weekends because we dislike very busy places. Not just because of the noise, but we tend to find that the food and service is not as good either.

Our friends are the same.

Silence in the cinema - hahahahahah (cackling laugh)

There are restaurants that are quiet, you just need to look around. Pubs and chains tend to be noisier. We visited a very expensive restaurant at the weekend, very quiet fine dining. Or off peak times.

Some people are very sensitive to noise.

We have one in our church - so I hear a manic cackle before every service, after every service and during every coffee morning.

She also thinks she can sing.

Have you ever heard a group of men decribed as cackling?

No - because, as has been mentioned upthread, men's voices rarely reach cackling pitch!

It's the human voice equivalent of the "fingernails down the blackboard" / "fork scraped across the plate" .

It cuts through the eardrum like a laser and it can often be physically painful for people who have noise sensitivity.

Men can laugh annoyingly loudly, but I've never hear one manage this sort of agonising pitch.

@Sirzy "If zeroing in on women is sexist surely so is zeroing in on men?"

Screechy and cackling is specifically misogynist language. See also shrill and witch. I can't think of any similar words used to describe men. Braying is classist and typical calls used for both sexes.

Maybe you would if it actually caused you pain. I'd also quite like to be able to have a conversation with the people I've chosen to go out with rather than listening to the noisy people on the next table. To add insult to injury the jokes that make them screech with laughter generally aren't funny.

There is a lot of ageism in this thread, a lot of the despicable cacklers are noted as people's mothers.

Is it ageist to have a mother older than you are?

@Emotionalsupportviper I don't get your point. People are often using their mothers as examples rather than friends of their own age So yes, ageist.

I think the idea of the 'fake laugh' is really being pushed on this thread as the woman can be blamed for doing something within her control. Rather than a PP being seen as despising her for not being genteel enough for the PP's standards, or having a woman's voice pitch, or having an older person's pitch, or just plain having the temerity to wholeheartedly enjoy herself.

The obvious is usually correct. And if a table full of people are laughing for 2 hours it is most likely they are enjoying themselves rather than 'performing' or whatever other strange ideas are being floated.

Oh dear, I'm older than all my kids! They are all older than their kids! We are obviously weirdos aren't we. Mind you none of us do the ear splitting laugh, well youngest GD does occasionally but you have to make allowances for babes in arms don't you.

I'm old and I don't see the ageism, maybe because women younger than me do it. It might seem different to people younger than me.

Sitting next to loud cackling women in a restaurant would make me get up and choose another restaurant. I think the worst is getting the late train back from London and being subjected to it. See also groups of rowdy men that need everyone to know just how much fun they are. Hideous people

I like that analogy - performative good times 😊

Disgusting!! Wearing what they like and eating and drinking what they want too!!
Scolds bridle all round is the only option isn't it for these bodacious women!!