annoyed woman wont move seats on train

[PrettyPleaseXo]

Currently on the train with my 5 year old. There’s loads of individual seats but none together so I’m stood next to my daughter who’s sat down next to another woman.
AIBU to be a bit annoyed she’s turned her back on my daughter to avoid eye contact and hasn’t moved to another seat so I can sit next to my daughter?

if there were no other seats I’d completely get it but there’s loads of individual ones

You keep saying 'basic good manners', ignoring that the OP is the actually the one with the bad manners here, and that the person in the seat has done nothing wrong.

The OP isn’t displaying basic good manners, though. She hasn’t asked for what she wants, and is instead looming over the poor woman who has done nothing wrong, passive-aggressively glaring at her and expecting her to read the OP’s mind. That is rude. If she wants the seat, she should open her mouth and ask, and explain why.

If there are loads of individual seats, why not ask someone else if they'd mind moving. It doesn't make sense to pick on one passenger.

And no, don't assume people will move. You have language and a voice, so use it and ask. The sky will not fall in, the worst that can happen is the person says no.

How do you know that OP has passively-aggressively stared at this woman?

This is not true. An advance ticket is only valid on the specific train. It comes with a seat reservation. It remains valid if you sit in an unreserved carriage, an unreserved seat, or pinch someone else's reserved seat (although such a person may come along to ask you to move.)

The OP has stated, however, that there were no reservations on this train. Probably there were no advance tickets on it either (unless somewhere in the UK there is a train operator selling advance tickets for specific trains but without seat reservations?).

Nonsense. If someone is standing in the aisle in your vicinity, how are you supposed to work out that they would like your seat unless they ask? I would take exactly the same attitude if the person sitting was a man or a woman. If someone dumped their child in the seat next to me and stood like a martyr, I would simply wonder why she didn't sit nearby or put her child on her lap.

OP hasn’t shown any bad manners. It is completely reasonable to expect people to have awareness of other people when they are on public transport.

What I’m reading is that actually many posters seem to think the fact that the OP even expected someone to move is outrageous because why should they be inconvenienced for even a few seconds for a strangers comfort.

So why shouldn’t the op inconvenience herself for a strangers comfort if that is what we are expecting this other woman to do?

Apropos of nothing, except we are talking travel and this thread has gone bananas, it is safer to sit with your back to direction of travel (physics, innit). However, psychologically (and of course if you are actually driving the vehicle) we like to see where we are going, so seats face forward, even on planes, where mostly we are seeing only clouds.

I have come across lots of people like her before. If she is incensed enough to start and respond to a thread here while trying to balance in a standing position on a moving train, and supervise her small child at the same time, she will definitely have made her feelings known. Not in the way which would help her achieve her aim, though, sadly.

unless somewhere in the UK there is a train operator selling advance tickets for specific trains but without seat reservations?

ALL our trains do that. It's very common.
You will find I think that all train companies that are on strike next week belong to that category.

You can buy online or at the station (ahead of your journey) but none of the seats can be reserved.

Do you seriously think the world revolves around you? Leave the poor woman in peace - she’s doing nothing wrong, just minding her own business.

You could always sit your daughter on your knee , if you can’t bear to stand, or sit nearby.

Sone people are simply unbelievable 🙈

So you made it up…

Actually, no, it isn't reasonable to expect another random person to just 'know' you have chosen them as the person who you think owes you a seat.

Agreed!

Not at all. Most people are able to reason and extrapolate from personal experience. By your own logic, you have equally ‘made it up’ that the OP hasn’t behaved like this, unless you are standing with her and observing her behaviour. If you are, you might have disclosed that earlier in the discussion.

Do you not take notice of other people when you are on public transport?

Those trains don't have advance tickets. They have tickets you can purchase in advance, but which are valid for multiple trains on the route.

For example, Southeastern is striking next week. They do not operate advance tickets. If you buy an off-peak ticket for tomorrow, you can use it on any off-peak train. There is no option of buying a cheaper train ticket that would be valid only on a specific train time.

It is NOT common for trains to sell tickets for only a specific train (the one leaving 12:23) without having reservations.

Yes I have extrapolated that you get glared at on a regular basis because you don’t have the basic good manners to help others out. Doesn’t mean that the OP glared at anyone though.

Not correct:

https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/tickets-railcards-and-offers/ticket-types/advance-tickets/advance-tickets-terms-and-conditions/

See point 4.2

Even if the PP does ‘take notice’, she is unlikely to be able to read the minds of the people around her. It is not usual to choose someone whose seat you wish to take, when there are others available, and hang over them until some sixth sense tells them what you want, and you are able to answer their unspoken question. If the OP wants to use this method to achieve her aim, she should cast her net wider and try to influence others in the carriage, until she lights on the chosen one who has fully developed telepathic powers. Or she could just open her mouth and ask someone.

This is what it says on Greater Anglia:

The one really important thing is that, when you bought your Advance ticket, you nominated a train and in certain cases were given a reserved seat on that train.

So you only get a reserved seat in certain circumstances, not with all advanced tickets.

Do you think I should be paying attention just in case the OP, or you, think you are more entitled to my seat than I am?

It would have been obvious that she was “hanging around” because she had a small child. Come on, it’s not difficult to work out.

Those trains don't have advance tickets. They have tickets you can purchase in advance, but which are valid for multiple trains on the route.

@Precipice I think you are just saying the same thing as I was.

Or you're confused about my post.

Advance tickets aren't (in my post) about being cheaper. I'm not talking about buying a ticket for a certain train, online, and paying a specific fare for it.

My definition of an 'advance ticket' is buying a ticket in advance of your journey.
So you catch the train you want to get and don't waste time at the ticket machine or the ticket office.

You will see this on their websites - 'buy your ticket in advance [of your journey].'