To think Labour should add ‘getting us back in the EU’ to their election manifesto

[bluewanda]

We had the referendum, we gave Brexit a go, and nearly 9 years on, I think it’s plain for most people to see that leaving the EU was a massive mistake. Even people I know who voted for Brexit admit that now they wished they hadn’t, given the shitshow that has unfolded since. So, why not nip it in the bud and get back in the EU ASAP? If Labour would add it to their election manifesto that would speed up the process, as we’d have a mandate by the end of this year. So why don’t they?

@ScierraDoll why the heck don't you want Kier to be the next P.M? He will be a decent steady ship and rebuild. Totally decent guy who some people have the wrong idea about. He is a steady family man who has a moral compass.

Fine, he might come across as boring to some. He isn’t though. He is the quiet man who gets on with it.

There is a lot of depth to him. You dont see if you only look at mainstream.

If I want to be entertained, I'll go to the theatre.

What an odd selection of food

Are you judging my fridge contents 😬 It’s not that ‘out there’ it’s just food

The corn is a contentious issue as 6 year old dd was adamant she wanted it and it’s still there weeks later

Carrots, cucumber are standard though as vegetables dc will eat. Lettuce less so bit for a particular meal

I’m not sure we go big on fruit in winter so only apples atm.

So I’ll add apples - Italy

Oh hang on Ocado easy peeler citrus - Spain

I don’t actually disagree with some of your points, maybe for another post. But looking it up out of interest

Its funny how the idiots would rather have a comic for a PM than decent people with values and strong work ethics.

Even if you don't support their politics, the country will be better run with people like this in Government than so called "characters"

So you agree that we shouldn't have been in the EU from the start then?

If you were PM, how much of a mandate would you have required for the following:
Abolition of slave trade
Universal suffrage
War/interventions for/against mid-century Germans, Iraq, Ukraine etc.
Levels of immigration over the last 20 years

Rightly or wrongly, the Good Ship EU has sailed.

@IcedPurple

For a generation, yes. Once the boomers die out in sufficient numbers (20 years or so), the electoral calculus will be very much in the rejoin direction.

Not this boomer shit again. I voted fucking remain

I think most analysts struggle to imagine what the world is going to be like 5 years ahead let alone 20.

I wouldn't want to place any money either way on what kind of place the EU is going to be in 20 years time and whether or not the majority of UK people are going to want to be part of that.

My initial post was on the SM / CU for this GE and I see many posts on changing demographics, but I’m more inclined to think where we’ll be in ten to twenty years is far more unknown

So I do somewhat agree with this

How many avocados or bananas did we import from Europe pre-2020?

Most of my strawberry/blueberry/raspberry consumption has been from my own garden, I refuse to buy imported soft fruit (unless yellow-stickered) on the basis that anything from overseas has been air-freighted and anything from Spain has come from the environmental and human rights disaster zone called Almeria.

I might warm to him if he actually had any policies. On most issues he seems to say "we'll do the same as them, but with a red tie". He could promise some decent rail investment or reform of taxation but he just dithers. "The government have cut back HS2? Oh well, that's that then..."

Like 43% of the 55-64 age group, and 40% of the 65+ group.

Gen X was little better. 44% of the 45-54 age group voted to remain.

There's no getting away from it, most middle aged people and above voted for it.

There have also been recent studies that suggest younger people won't drift to the right as they age, unlike previous generations.

So overall it does seem that in 20 years or so, there'd be more of an interest in the EU. But who knows what's going to happen in the next two decades, so it's anyone's guess if the population does then want that.

@GasPanic

You don't have to bet anything. Its simply demographics, life expectancy, and voting record.

The numbers are easy enough to project.

What is a bit more difficult is the state of the UK economy in 20 years (the confidence intervals are simply too wide really). And the economics does influence voting intention for rejoin or not.

So if the UK economy is in the doldrums in 20Y relative to EU peers (similar to 70s), you will see voting intentions skew to rejoin.

Its deductive logic using demographics and economic projections.

Fwiw the quality and volume of food has declined massively, particularly fresh fruit and veg. Broccoli soft and bendy, turning yellow when it’s cooking, green beans rotting in the packet, often shortages on the shelves so if you go to the supermarket at 3 there are no decent potatoes. This has been an ongoing issue for a year or two now and well documented on MN. Any case in a few weeks there may well be issues due to new border checks being carried out (kicked down the road for the last few years and we’ve basically allowed anything in).
Yet again the poor will be screwed and the shoppers at Ocardo or Waitrose will be fine.

It already is by a long way according to all polls I have seen. But it's a quirk of our voting system that die hard brexiteers can still swing many seats, which is why labour won't go near Brexit. But as you say most of these people are elderly...

Do Ocado get the decent potatoes?

I might warm to him if he actually had any policies. On most issues he seems to say "we'll do the same as them, but with a red tie". He could promise some decent rail investment or reform of taxation but he just dithers. "The government have cut back HS2? Oh well, that's that then..."

Why don't you look on Labours website for a sense of the general direction of travel?
If they did announce rail investment plans the first charge is "How would you pay for it..?" Taxation? thats a huge ask of an opposition party, perhaps a year out from a GE and at least 2 budgets away.

The country is in a dire state, until Labour have access to the true level of the UK's finances, they cannot come out with the plans you seem to demand of them but do not demand of the Tories.

Why don't you ask of the Tories when they will start building northern powerhouse rail? after all, they ve only been in for 13 years and have built how much of it so far?

The salad and veg in my fridge comes from the UK, Spain and Netherlands. Fruit - I dont eat strawberries until summer, but when available I like the Dutch varieties first but always love British strawberries and tend to wait for those.

Blueberries and raspberries - I grow my own in the garden, so wait until available. Same with rhubarb. Apples in my crisper box are both British, I have pink lady and braeburn.

I have mange tout from Guatemala but they last ages in the fridge. If they start to appear rank in the shops, I just wont buy.

I have not seen shortages in the shops apart from eggs a couple of years ago when there was the bird virus but if I remember they had shortages in Europe too. Also in Feb when bad weather was blamed in Morocco. Do people believe we would have been immune from these shortages if in the EU?

There's loads of food in our shops and to quote my dear, departed grandma "you don't know you are born!"

Love this post for the fridge detail and the sign off from dear grandma

I’m more likely to ponder food waste when I see those stocked supermarket shelves than I am shortage

Because it's not in their interest to.

The people who want to rejoin the EU will vote Labour (or Lib Dem, depending on the area) just to get the tories out. Their votes are a given.

The voters they need to get back to win are those working class & lower middle class voters who always used to vote Labour in the past, but voted tory in recent elections because they wanted Brexit / to get Brexit 'done' 🙄.

Also, if Labour does want us to rejoin in some form (e.g. rejoining single market), it does no good for the UK's negotiating position to state that now, as then the EU know that the UK government has to get a deal to deliver their manifesto. Far better to go into negotiations with a more nonchalant appearance.

Absolutely this. If Labour know what they are doing, they should walk the next election. They’ll focus on ripping the tories to shreds - which won’t exactly be difficult.

@EffieeBriest

Agree with your comment.

And all of these supply issues have arisen when they did not have import checks on food coming in from the EU.

That ends Jan 31st (or so they say as the decision has been punted several times because they are not ready).

This means higher prices (0.2% bump in total inflation), and less choices as the extra costs are passed on to the consumer.

2024 is shaping up to be the Year of Discontent

So many things are falling apart in the UK, and these risks are aggregating with other risks (mortgage costs, water sector solvency, housing shortages etc) which are creating a perfect storm.

I don't think people realise just how economically damaged the UK really is. The numbers are downright horrific.

Getting back to Europe is not even in my top 10 things to vote for.

OK, can anybody list one single tangible benefit to come from Brexit?

Tell me about something which is now demonstrably better as a direct result.

I wad in the republic of Ireland just before Christmas. And ai can say without any hesitation, the supermarkets there are heaving with every product you could think of. Not a single one had even partially empty shelves. Here it's a regular occurrence to see half empty displays or bare sections.

It's really noticeable how little product is actually on sale here.

A 0.2% inflation increase is pissing in the wind compared to what we have seen recently in inflation movement.

Mortgage costs seem to be on their way down at the moment (real rates offered to customers as opposed to bank rates - bank rates may follow soon).

Don't know about energy, suspect that if the situation in the Gulf kicks off then prices will go up, but I am still paying far less for gas per unit at the moment than I was last year (10.5p vs. 7.5p).

If the UK was going to enter a period of discontent then it would have been 2023 IMO.