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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think Labour should add ‘getting us back in the EU’ to their election manifesto

281 replies

bluewanda · 28/01/2024 09:08

We had the referendum, we gave Brexit a go, and nearly 9 years on, I think it’s plain for most people to see that leaving the EU was a massive mistake. Even people I know who voted for Brexit admit that now they wished they hadn’t, given the shitshow that has unfolded since. So, why not nip it in the bud and get back in the EU ASAP? If Labour would add it to their election manifesto that would speed up the process, as we’d have a mandate by the end of this year. So why don’t they?

OP posts:

defiant2024 · 01/02/2024 08:32

,,,

newnamethanks · 01/02/2024 08:39

Nice try OP. No, bad idea to provide ammunition for Titchy. Stick with the bland, Sir Keir.

GasPanic · 01/02/2024 10:27

WhatsTheUseOfWorrying · 01/02/2024 08:10

I don’t understand your reference to expertise. I was just replying to a poster who I thought had made a general, snarky point about everyone posting on this thread. I just pointed out that self-appointed commentators are the stuff of MN. Me included.

I did read your post. My point about no EU army wasn’t very clear I admit. It was just meant to mean that we’ve never had a defence pact via the EU; a defence pact with European nations doesn’t need, and wouldn’t be helped by, EU membership; and there’s no extra-national military force in the EU. So it’s not obvious how defence can be linked with Brexit at all.

I didn’t say that the Balkan conflict was caused by the EU. The EU failed to do any political or other good in the Balkans, despite regarding it as an EU issue for being a war in Europe. The Balkans coined the EU policy of ‘crisis management’. That’s been quietly dropped after becoming an embarrassment. NATO - in effect the US - stopped the war in TFY and led to the prosecution of Milosevic and others.

Of course I don’t blame the EU for causing Russia’s invasion of Ukraine either. My point was that stopping Russia is necessary for greater safety in the rest of Europe and that it’s the US that’s doing the most to achieve that, and it’s NATO that’s the only safeguard against any Russian broadening of that war.

Show quote history

Interesting post.

I find Ukraine a difficult one. On the one hand it is hard to agree with the Rusian aggression against a sovereign nation.

On the other I do sometimes think about how the border has shifted between East and West since the wall fell. The border used to be East Germany. Now it has moved eastwards to Ukraine and Belarus. One of those countries wants to join the EU.

It has to be like this of course. The EU is expansionist. It needs to be to find new markets to sell its products into. Existing markets like Southern Europe, France and the UK are tapped out. If the Germans are to continue their export machine they need to find new areas to sell into. This is why countries like Turkey and Ukraine are being courted by the EU. They are sizable countries that are underdeveloped with large populations and also large alternative production potential (Ukraine is/was particularly strong in foods). To my mind Ukraine is a victim of this economic power struggle between the EU and Russia.

I think it is understandable why Russia feels this approach towards its borders is a threat (whether it is justifiable for them to use military force is another issue). After all NATO specifically exists to counter the Russian threat. This is why it exists. I am not sure that other powers like the US or China would be happy with such encroachment on their borders. I doubt very much that if the Chinese decided to move strongly economically into central America and Mexico that the US would be particularly happy about that. Maybe it would not result in a hot war, but an elevated cold one certainly. I'm not confident they would react any differently to the way Russia has over Ukraine.

MeAndStuart1981 · 01/02/2024 13:17

It's all kicking off outside EU headquarters in Brussels. Bet there's some brun pantalons in the EU canteen today not wanting to face this lot. What a mal de tete 😱

https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2024/feb/01/protesting-farmers-camp-outside-european-parliament-and-clash-with-police-video

Protesting farmers light fires and clash with police at European parliament – video

The farmers clashed with police in front of the European parliament, throwing eggs toward the building

https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2024/feb/01/protesting-farmers-camp-outside-european-parliament-and-clash-with-police-video

GasPanic · 01/02/2024 13:37

The sunlit uplands. The land of milk and honey that awaits us when we rejoin no doubt.

The problem is, there is no such thing as EU good or EU bad.

Like a lot of things in life it's a lot more complicated than that.

EasternStandard · 01/02/2024 13:49

GasPanic · 01/02/2024 13:37

The sunlit uplands. The land of milk and honey that awaits us when we rejoin no doubt.

The problem is, there is no such thing as EU good or EU bad.

Like a lot of things in life it's a lot more complicated than that.

Looks messy in pp

I’m happy to discuss it. If someone were to give me a vote I’d want numbers on any economic bump

I’d want long term info taking into account movement of people

Unfortunately none of that is on the offing

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