To think Labour should add ‘getting us back in the EU’ to their election manifesto

[bluewanda]

We had the referendum, we gave Brexit a go, and nearly 9 years on, I think it’s plain for most people to see that leaving the EU was a massive mistake. Even people I know who voted for Brexit admit that now they wished they hadn’t, given the shitshow that has unfolded since. So, why not nip it in the bud and get back in the EU ASAP? If Labour would add it to their election manifesto that would speed up the process, as we’d have a mandate by the end of this year. So why don’t they?

so are you suggesting that when the people are allowed a say in decisions via a referendum, it should only be valid if , for arguments sake, 75% agree

Yes. And that's how referendums in democracies all over the world work. Although referendums are generally not a good thing. If there were a referendum on reintroducing the death penalty in the UK there's a worrying chance the pros would win.

From the Parliamentary research servivd dated thid monyh.

"UK GDP in Q3 2023 was 1.4% above its pre-pandemic level of Q4 2019. This compares with Eurozone GDP being 3.0% higher, with GDP in Germany up by 0.3%. The other G7 economies had higher growth than the UK over this period, including the US where GDP was 7.4% higher."

There's even a graph.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn02784/#:~:text=GDP%20growth%20in%20recent%20years,where%20GDP%20was%207.4%25%20higher.

Ooh that would be interesting.

Democracy is totally amazing until the majority wants something you don't...

Inflation in the UK is stubbornly high, quite a bit higher that Eurozone, EU ad EEA, so not do fine outside.

EU is about to stock pile medicines to ease any supply chain issues, we'll be out of that, so expect even greater shortages as we go to the back of the queue.

We have just had to pay in billions to re join Horizon, we've no say or influence on EU migration, hence 10s of 1000s crossing the channel from France and no returns.
Just lost our free trade deal with Canada, EU has one.

What dramatic political changes in Europe?

Wasn't there a rejoin march held in September which promised millions joining together to march through the streets of London because we all want to rejoin and only 2000 turned up and it included quite few who came over from France and Belgium.

Momentum to rejoin is not high with British people living in the UK. For a start and a massive thorn is do we really want to take the Euro?

Has anyone seen the protests taking place with the big EU nett contributors as recent as this week ie Germany and France have marches in their streets? The EU is definitely not the land of milk and honey.

The question should be what is so amazing about the EU just right now that you insist that the UK absolutely has to rejoin it with all the costs and losses that would involve?

Because we won’t get back in on the same terms, because we would have to use the crappy euro, because we will be made an example off

because Labour, like any other party is rubbish.

we have no good party to lead this country

No of course not Labour need as many as possible of the voters who usually voted Labour but supported Brexit to return to win the next election

closer ties can be made after will a gradual return to the EU

When you say closer ties do you mean SM / CU and FOM or something else?

Because if Labour do this a bunch of (red-wall) voters would immediately switch voting intention to "Reform' which would then place Reform, Labour and Conservatives neck and neck in the polling. Not only would it be a potential election loser at a time when they are ahead in the polls, it would also risk a hung parliament.

Brexit is a very devisive issue strong enough for people to change lifelong tribes. The most enthusiastic pro-brexit votes came from traditional Labour seats, while the middle class tory voters tended towards remain. Yes, some people might have changed their minds on how they voted in the referendum, but this goes both ways, not discounting that some remainers would vote against the policy purely that it is anti-democtatic to over-turn a referendum result with less than 50% of the vote.

I am also a full on remainer but I don’t think rejoin is right. I would be up for a Swiss type arrangement made up of bilateral agreements in which we join Schengen, Single Market and Customs Union (which CH is not part of). So not members, but following a precedent to get many of the benefits. It’s a compromise which reflects the referendum result which was won by a hair’s breadth.

Yabu op.

I was massively against Brexit and think it’s been proven to be a huge mistake- non of the upsides existed (look at all those wonderful trade deals🙄) and it’s clearly come with a massive amount of downsides. But…

Theres no easy ticket to re-entry. It’s taken years for the shit dust to settle, and to open up the whole argument again, possibly for years (perhaps leading to accepting less favourable terms) will not appeal to the electorate at this moment. Maybe once the damage caused by the wrecking ball that the Tories turned into has started to be repaired the question can be asked. But first, a whole raft of problems need addressing, few of which will be solved by simply rejoining, if it were even possible.

So perhaps after one parliament of a (hopefully to soon be elected) Labour govt, but not right now. Just my 2p.

I think that's the perfect answer and I'm a Labour voter and a remainer.

I am not sure 🤔 I think it will be judged on how the public will take this how the EU will work with us will it impact the following election

As said earlier on the thread, it wouldn’t be just going back into the EU because we want to. It would be an application and new terms etc

Well, we won't be getting that. The EU finds all the bilateral agreements with Switzerland overly complicated and a massive PITA. Repeat that? No way on earth.

They can't put it on the manifesto because the election would then turn into an informal Brexit 2 (Nexit?) to the detriment of everything else.

It would be the ruin of the labour party if they added it to their manifesto. Hardly anyone wants to return to the political bloc. Go ahead Keir but you will be thrashed.

As someone said further up the thread - what is so amazing about the EU just right now that you insist that the UK absolutely has to rejoin it with all the costs and losses that would involve?

YABU unfortunately. A "Rejoin the EU" pledge has only downside risk and no upside. It will immediately antagonize not only leavers but the apathetic types who don't want any radical change. Later on, when the Rejoin promise is shown to be an empty one (because our rejoining depends on the agreement of 27-odd other countries and not merely on a future UK referendum) it will alienate the holdout remainers/rejoiners as well.

The only feasible way that you, personally, can rejoin the EU is if you vote with your feet and move to an EU country. Sadly, this is now easier said than done.

It's worth a go. We won't get the "Swiss option" in one fell swoop for the reasons you mention, but increasing co-operation one sector at a time is a no-brainer. Surely even the more intelligent Leavers must realize this.

I'm not looking forward to food prices going up when the brexit import controls come in this year

https://www.itv.com/news/2024-01-25/fruit-and-veg-prices-predicted-to-rise-in-uk-when-new-post-brexit-controls-bite

The gift that keeps on giving

And the biometric checks that will be introduced later this year. Theres going to be some very long queues of British holiday makers after that.

Why would they ?

The country is running OK after Brexit, or at least a lot better than project fear said it was going to be. Most of the issues we have seen re inflation are due to worldwide economic issues and politics and not much to do with Brexit. A significant proportion of Europe is suffering economically.

By saying they will hold another referendum they will just alienate their voters who voted for Brexit and it probably wouldn't gain them any votes with the Labour remainers who would probably vote for them anyway. It's a lose lose.

I think like it or not the Brexit question is over. We are out, neither the Tories or Labour are going to recommend we go back in. And the EU probably wouldn't want us back anyway. It's now more about how we take our relationship with the EU forwards.

bluewanda · Today 09:28

Brexit happened, we need to get over it and move on.

Why? The nation made a collective mistake. Why can’t it be given the option to put it right?

That's what Starmer wants to try - to seek a "major rewrite of the Brexit deal".

But as the Institute for Government and others point out, it takes two to negotiate. Starmer can "seek" anything he wants, but why should thf EU agree?

Let's take Starmer's intention to seek a new veterinary deal with Brussels to ease border checks on food. An identical proposal was put forward in 2020 and rejected by the EU.

The EU will not compromise on food or veterinary standards and will want checks to ensure them. See also the EU trade deal with Canada, where the EU does not have to accept growth hormone riddle beef.

@Chersfrozenface You're right, which is why Starmer will have to approach the EU with a view to what's actually in it for them, rather than just a list of unilateral demands. This requires a major mindset shift from the UK government, as opposed to merely a "change of government" with different faces but the same approach. I hope he's up to the challenge.