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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

My DS is about to be permanently excluded- fairly urgent advice needed

256 replies

Bumblebee2324 · 27/01/2024 22:52

My DS (now 14) is about to be permanently excluded. AIBU to think this is a little OTT considering his circumstances? I have my hard hat on so feel free to be honest with me here.

My younger sister (34) took her life in a horrific and traumatic way last January 2023. She lived with us on and off for over 10 years. She was a free spirit who loved my children like her own and they adored her. She meant everything to them. She did school runs for me. Attended all important events. Was such a huge part of their lives.

My DS had a nearly perfect record until this point. Great attendance. He had the odd log for uniform infringements, lates, that sort of thing.

When his auntie died he spiralled into depression. He developed severed insomnia, panic attacks and lost all interest in just about every area of his life. His attendance dropped to just over 50%. He was there almost everyday but was just consistently late all the time because of his insomnia. He no longer cared about school, sports or anything he used to enjoy. He had always had trouble making friends, he was a bit awkward and was a bit overweight. Kids were cruel and he had never brought a friend home in all the time he was at this school. He only had friends online and never left the house, no matter how much we tried to encourage him to engage in a social life.

The school noticed a significant change in him and many meetings were had. Referrals were promised, including to CAMHS. Not only for his depression but also because he suddenly developed tics and other odd behaviours. I told his head of year in strict confidence that he has no friends. He bottles things up and doesn’t like to talk. She told him what I said anyway.

Around summertime he suddenly developed a friendship group. I was so happy! Until I found out they were two years younger than him and were apparently a group known to be trouble. The school’s words, not mine. He got into a fight which resulted in a three day exclusion, he was then excluded again for bunking a lesson and then excluded a third time for puffing on someone else’s vape which was caught on CCTV.

At this point we had been back and forth to the GP who could only prescribe antihistamines. We were told by the school that a referral had been done to CAMHS who would be able to give him melatonin.

After his last exclusion we were told he was no longer welcome at the school. Our options were a managed move or a PRU. Of course we went with the managed move to give him a fresh start at a mainstream school.

He seemed so happy. His attendance shot up to well over 90%. He missed 2 days due to D&V. His insomnia was still a problem. He was so tired all the time. His effort in class was described as ‘lethargic’. He had no interest in his school work. Depression, ADHD and ASD run in our family so his CAMHS referral was vital. I took him to the GP for the 5th time about his insomnia. She checked on the referral for us and told us there was no CAMHS referral. She called CAMHS to make sure. She did an urgent referral there and then and he has an appointment in March.

We had his 6 week managed move review last week and it was terminated. They couldn’t handle his ‘lethargic’ attitude. The other complaint was that he was wearing his coat in between lessons in the hallways. He had a few lates to lessons and the final nail in the coffin was that he was in the vicinity of a fight that he was not involved in. The school is HUGE and he was lost. Wrong place wrong time. I was told they expected 100% attendance and for him to be ‘squeaky clean’. Their words.

He was sent home with me immediately and will now be permanently excluded. Whilst the teachers said his attitude to learning was ‘lethargic’, they described him as a kind, polite and gentle boy. He is just so depressed and lost 😔 When we got home he had a severe panic attack and I had to hold him in my arms while he sobbed feeling unwanted and like a complete failure.

He doesn’t belong in a PRU. He is not that child. It will destroy him. He’s just not strong enough.

What can I do? What would you do? This doesn’t feel right. Our eldest has ADHD and ASD and life has been hell with him but he has an EHCP that protects him. He has been violent, destroyed school property, done awful things. But he is currently sitting with his bum in the butter because the LA is legally bound to do everything they can for him. My other DS does not have an EHCP. His dyslexia was not enough to apply apparently. His symptoms only escalated after the death of his beloved Auntie.

Any advice would be so appreciated. Thank you.

OP posts:
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23
crumblingschools · 28/01/2024 13:09

Also a fixed term suspension can’t usually become a PEX except in exceptional circumstances

SeaBlueSky · 28/01/2024 13:16

If you’re in a position to do so, I’d take him out of the school system entirely. Home ed all the way!

Feelingleftoutagain · 28/01/2024 13:24

See the Dr again and ask medication to help with sleep at the same time ask for a referral for him to be tested for ASD etc, pay for it if you have too but it may give you answers, also gives you more clout at the school with support etc demand the school support with counseling he desperately needs grief counselling which can come from a charity called Winstone wish. As others have said do look at some Prus as they can be very good at supporting children with MH issues, suggest to the school that he part attends pru and can look at going back to mainstream when he is ready but only when he is ready. I really hope you get the support he needs and it makes me so angry that his original school did nothing to help you when they could have got grief counselling easily for him. My other advice start demanding and being a little bit bolshy with people, check school behaviour policy can they really exclude him for whats happened? But most of all I send you big hugs

HollyJollyHolidays · 28/01/2024 13:27

You sound like a lovely family, he will be ok. School isn’t the be all and end all. Have you checked local colleges for 14-16 part time courses for children struggling in school? They are for home learners and they can usually do things like functional skills or some GCSEs. Worth a try, he might find it easier than school.

Also, your son’s symptoms sound like my son’s were- the school nurse recommended getting his blood tested for deficiencies and it turned out he was really low b12 and folic acid. Worth a try.

HollyJollyHolidays · 28/01/2024 13:28

Low b12 can cause insomnia, lethargy, depression etc

Angrywife · 28/01/2024 13:50

Bumblebee2324 · 28/01/2024 07:23

@Angrywife we were told at the 6 week review which was attended by deputy heads from both schools, that if his managed move is terminated he is immediately permanently excluded from his original school, he will never go back. Can they not do that? This happened on Friday and I’ve had no contact from his original school since. I don’t even know where he is supposed to be tomorrow morning.

No, they can't do that. They can't permanently excluded for historic behaviour unless new information has come to light.

Read the exclusions guidance, speak go your local authority exclusions officer (they'll have someone that would represent the authority at the governor exclusion panel), and speak to the school confident in your knowledge.

Your son is entitled to return to his school. But, they will be looking for any excuse to get rid of him so any little mistake and they can put it down as persistently disruptive behaviour so make sure your son knows to keep his head down and behave when he goes back

Confused2124 · 28/01/2024 14:44

They absolutely can permanently exclude based on previous poor behaviour, if the behaviours are not corrected. Many permanent exclusions are not as a result of one big incident but rather persistent disruptive behaviour.

HarrietTheFireStarter · 28/01/2024 14:45

@BettyBakesCakes I am in New Zealand. He has been offered so much assistance and eventually agreed to a specialist service for teenage boys. Saw a male therapist, lovely guy who taught him about how the brain works when emotions are running high and how to manage that. He copes well with straight up clinical information. As a younger teen, he struggled with anxiety and he worked with an occupational therapist to identify his feelings then practise strategies to push through tricky patches. Very sensible and easy to follow.

crumblingschools · 28/01/2024 14:54

@Confused2124 they can’t turn an incident from a suspension to a PEX unless additional information came to light.

A PEX can be based on persistent behaviour against the school policy, but not sure based on the facts provided that has happened here, but you can’t convert something into PEX

Confused2124 · 28/01/2024 14:56

It depends if the suspension is pending full investigation. The school may have chosen to suspend the child whilst an investigation happens and for the head teacher to review all evidence including his previous behaviour records, it could then turn into a permanent exclusion.

greglet · 28/01/2024 15:02

Hi @Bumblebee2324, I’ve only read your posts so not sure if anyone has already mentioned this, but you can buy melatonin easily (and legally!) online - try the site Biovea UK.

Best of luck to you and your son, it sounds like you've all been through an awful time Flowers

StaunchMomma · 28/01/2024 15:18

Have you researched local alt-provision, rather than a PRU?

crumblingschools · 28/01/2024 15:21

@Confused2124 can you show the legislation for that

Skyblue92 · 28/01/2024 15:35

Confused2124 · 28/01/2024 14:44

They absolutely can permanently exclude based on previous poor behaviour, if the behaviours are not corrected. Many permanent exclusions are not as a result of one big incident but rather persistent disruptive behaviour.

But that’s only if things put in place haven’t worked. Based on the OP and subsequent updates that’s not the case, it’s more a case of we can’t cope so therefore let’s PEX. as a teacher in secondary myself I can see based on the OP posts that this is unfair

Mischance · 28/01/2024 15:39

Try Child Bereavement UK: https://www.childbereavementuk.org/supporting-bereaved-children-and-young-people

His behaviour changed when his aunt died, so the cause of his insomnia and bad behaviour is already known. Maybe this organisation can help him sort his head out. I hope so.

user8800 · 28/01/2024 15:45

Past behaviour is looked at for context : this is made clear in the LA representation guidance

The burden of proof is based on the balance of probabilities, which is also made clear in the guidance.

Behaviour logs and witness statements from stakeholders should be sought and provided

Evidence can be written, eyewitness, or video evidence.

If the pupil does not engage with support put in place, mm or p ex is usual.

Outside advice should have been sought by school and acted upon : LA/inclusion partnership/cahms, etc

Confuddledandmuddled · 28/01/2024 15:52

I have no advice to give about the situation with your son - however I am sorry you are dealing with this. I did want to say however please make sure you’re looking after yourself. It sounds like you’ve had an awful lot on your plate since the death of your sister and probably haven’t had time to grieve properly. Make sure you take some time for yourself and look after your needs as well x

Confused2124 · 28/01/2024 15:53

Hi,
don’t want to come across as being on the schools side or anything - just giving information.
For what’s it’s worth I don’t believe any P Ex is a failure on the school. If it was because he wasn’t coping they should’ve referred him to alternative provision or therapies to help. They should have exhausted every avenue

Confused2124 · 28/01/2024 15:54

Sorry - I meant to put I DO believe P Ex is a failure on the school.

Isitovernow123 · 28/01/2024 16:15

Confused2124 · 28/01/2024 15:54

Sorry - I meant to put I DO believe P Ex is a failure on the school.

I think, perhaps, you need to work in a school. Schools do not PEx for the sake of it. It’s down to the student’s actions, attitude and ability to understand when they’ve done something wrong.

Funnily enough, it’s normally due to lack of effective parenting, or the parents blaming the school for their child’s issues (which the op is not doing in this case).

Isitovernow123 · 28/01/2024 16:18

Additionally, the school also has a responsibility to the other 29 students in a class to ensure that they do not have a disruptive education. If it’s persistent disruptive behaviour, it’s a fine balance, but why should one individual be allowed to ruin everyone else education?

mitogoshi · 28/01/2024 16:31

Have you tried local child bereavement services for support? It may not be the whole answer but if you can get him back on track by September, you could run your get special permission to restart this school year due to circumstances

WriterOfWrongs · 28/01/2024 17:07

Read the exclusions guidance, speak go your local authority exclusions officer (they'll have someone that would represent the authority at the governor exclusion panel), and speak to the school confident in your knowledge

Good advice by @Angrywife but:

NB: the LA do not need to attend a PEx Panel if the school is an Academy. They can be invited to and often are by Academies.

Is the school saying he’s been permanently excluded an academy @Bumblebee2324 ?

Bumblebee2324 · 28/01/2024 18:26

@WriterOfWrongs thank you! I’ll do that right now. No, the school is not an academy.

OP posts: