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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

My DS is about to be permanently excluded- fairly urgent advice needed

256 replies

Bumblebee2324 · 27/01/2024 22:52

My DS (now 14) is about to be permanently excluded. AIBU to think this is a little OTT considering his circumstances? I have my hard hat on so feel free to be honest with me here.

My younger sister (34) took her life in a horrific and traumatic way last January 2023. She lived with us on and off for over 10 years. She was a free spirit who loved my children like her own and they adored her. She meant everything to them. She did school runs for me. Attended all important events. Was such a huge part of their lives.

My DS had a nearly perfect record until this point. Great attendance. He had the odd log for uniform infringements, lates, that sort of thing.

When his auntie died he spiralled into depression. He developed severed insomnia, panic attacks and lost all interest in just about every area of his life. His attendance dropped to just over 50%. He was there almost everyday but was just consistently late all the time because of his insomnia. He no longer cared about school, sports or anything he used to enjoy. He had always had trouble making friends, he was a bit awkward and was a bit overweight. Kids were cruel and he had never brought a friend home in all the time he was at this school. He only had friends online and never left the house, no matter how much we tried to encourage him to engage in a social life.

The school noticed a significant change in him and many meetings were had. Referrals were promised, including to CAMHS. Not only for his depression but also because he suddenly developed tics and other odd behaviours. I told his head of year in strict confidence that he has no friends. He bottles things up and doesn’t like to talk. She told him what I said anyway.

Around summertime he suddenly developed a friendship group. I was so happy! Until I found out they were two years younger than him and were apparently a group known to be trouble. The school’s words, not mine. He got into a fight which resulted in a three day exclusion, he was then excluded again for bunking a lesson and then excluded a third time for puffing on someone else’s vape which was caught on CCTV.

At this point we had been back and forth to the GP who could only prescribe antihistamines. We were told by the school that a referral had been done to CAMHS who would be able to give him melatonin.

After his last exclusion we were told he was no longer welcome at the school. Our options were a managed move or a PRU. Of course we went with the managed move to give him a fresh start at a mainstream school.

He seemed so happy. His attendance shot up to well over 90%. He missed 2 days due to D&V. His insomnia was still a problem. He was so tired all the time. His effort in class was described as ‘lethargic’. He had no interest in his school work. Depression, ADHD and ASD run in our family so his CAMHS referral was vital. I took him to the GP for the 5th time about his insomnia. She checked on the referral for us and told us there was no CAMHS referral. She called CAMHS to make sure. She did an urgent referral there and then and he has an appointment in March.

We had his 6 week managed move review last week and it was terminated. They couldn’t handle his ‘lethargic’ attitude. The other complaint was that he was wearing his coat in between lessons in the hallways. He had a few lates to lessons and the final nail in the coffin was that he was in the vicinity of a fight that he was not involved in. The school is HUGE and he was lost. Wrong place wrong time. I was told they expected 100% attendance and for him to be ‘squeaky clean’. Their words.

He was sent home with me immediately and will now be permanently excluded. Whilst the teachers said his attitude to learning was ‘lethargic’, they described him as a kind, polite and gentle boy. He is just so depressed and lost 😔 When we got home he had a severe panic attack and I had to hold him in my arms while he sobbed feeling unwanted and like a complete failure.

He doesn’t belong in a PRU. He is not that child. It will destroy him. He’s just not strong enough.

What can I do? What would you do? This doesn’t feel right. Our eldest has ADHD and ASD and life has been hell with him but he has an EHCP that protects him. He has been violent, destroyed school property, done awful things. But he is currently sitting with his bum in the butter because the LA is legally bound to do everything they can for him. My other DS does not have an EHCP. His dyslexia was not enough to apply apparently. His symptoms only escalated after the death of his beloved Auntie.

Any advice would be so appreciated. Thank you.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
cansu · 28/01/2024 10:49

KillerTomato7
Schools do not exclude for being lethargic or taking off their jacket. There may be plenty of info we are not being told here. If matters are as described the exclusion is unlikely to be upheld.

Isitovernow123 · 28/01/2024 10:53

KillerTomato7 · 28/01/2024 10:28

Yes, schools are there to provide an education, not to deny grieving children an education for crimes like being “lethargic” or taking their jackets off in the hall.

I didn’t say it was - please read what I have written again. For clarity, I said I think there is more to this story.

Bumblebee2324 · 28/01/2024 10:55

@Isitovernow123 Yes, you are right. My own grief and PTSD have meant that I’ve gone from a happy-go-lucky PTA parent who dedicated all her spare time to my kids schools and everything in between. I am doing all the work that I possibly can to find myself again.

I have been there for my son. He has had bereavement counselling. Privately and through two charities. His phone is taken away two hours before bedtime. I’ve been to the GP five times to ask for help with his insomnia. I have been there for him. Attended all meetings. I have been sent a sleep hygiene guide from CAMHS while we wait for his appointment that we follow religiously.

Whilst I’m not the happy healthy mom he has had his whole life right now, I am still here for him and I care deeply. I have done everything I can to support him.

This post is about what his school is doing to him. Yes, I am broken, but I am not neglectful. I’m certainly not who I was a year ago but I’m not completely useless, I assure you. My children are my world.

You can accuse you me all you like about something not being quite right about this post but that’s a you problem. I have been completely honest and forthcoming.

Thanks for your kind input.

OP posts:
Isitovernow123 · 28/01/2024 10:57

Passepartoute · 28/01/2024 10:47

You haven't read the DfE exclusions guidance, have you?

Pt 3 sections 8 and 12 are quite clear on the 5 provision of work, both for suspension and PEx

Bumblebee2324 · 28/01/2024 10:58

@Towerofsong thank you so much! I did miss this. So helpful, thank you x

OP posts:
Mumof2NDers · 28/01/2024 11:01

Sunflower8848 · 27/01/2024 22:56

Have you visited a PRU? You might be surprised how supportive they are. They have a lot of training in helping children with emotional regulation and those that have experienced trauma. I think you should consider it.

It depends on the PRU.
Our story is similar. DS2 (now 16) has ADHD and following 4 bereavements in 2 years he started to struggle emotionally and developed anxiety.
His attendance dropped and when he was at school he was involved in a couple of incidents.
DS was referred to a team called the “progression” team and given a key worker. When school started talking about sending him to a PRU she advised me against it and told me to stand firm because DS “wasn’t that child”. Our local one was mostly frequented by the kids no school wanted due to their behaviour. I’m sure some PRU’s are great but I’d take advice before deciding on one.
OP after many meetings and much toing and froing DS was referred to a small private unit for one on one tuition in maths, English and science. This route was advised to me by his key worker. School never gave this as an option, according to his hey worked it was because he would stay in their roll and they would have to pay for it.

HarrietTheFireStarter · 28/01/2024 11:07

Just a thought @Bumblebee2324
My son is neurodiverse and the children's mental health service provides different support to him than to neurotypical children. I'm just wondering whether your boy may benefit from specialised type of therapy rather than regular counselling? Mine responds well to very tight structure, it helps keep anxiety at bay.

SunSparkle · 28/01/2024 11:10

@Bumblebee2324 have you considered your son attending an online school? There are quite a few options available now.

Anjea · 28/01/2024 11:16

First things first, none of this is your fault.

Your family has had a tragic and heartbreaking event and you're coping as best you can.

Have you spoken to Winston's wish? They're an amazing charity and I can't recommend them enough. Lots of love to all of you Flowers

Ohnoooooooo · 28/01/2024 11:16

Bumblebee2324 · 27/01/2024 23:39

Thank you all so much for your replies and for being kind. We have paid for counselling and he has had two lots of 6 week sessions with charities. It hasn’t helped. We have finally been referred to jigsaw which work with the school and us as a family. I feel so much guilt because my sister was my world so I have not been the mother I used to be for him. In the last year I have also had CBT, bereavement counselling and am nearly finished a 16 week course of EMDR. My sister died in my arms. My trauma has no doubt had an effect on my children and I blame myself for that. We came from a very traumatic background. My sister had BPD. Between trying to save her life and trying to help my eldest I know I neglected my other children. There is only so much I can give while being so broken myself. Not that this is relevant but I’m a SAHM. My DH earns enough to give us that privilege. I’ve attended every meeting. Every doctor’s appointment. Done everything I can while also dealing with my own broken heart. My kids are well provided for. They come from a good loving home. This is all my fault, isn’t it? I’m so broken and devastated. I just want my sister back. I want my happy DS back. This hurts so much.

I am sorry for all your trauma - if you can afford it can I recommend you go private to have an ADHD/ASD assessment and an educational phycologist assess him. Ask the school if they have someone they recommend who people. If you have a lot of neurodiversity on your family (we do too) your sister's death might be part of a bigger picture that is being missed. If he comes back with a diagnosis then you can see an ECHP for him too.

BettyBakesCakes · 28/01/2024 11:23

They can't pe him if they haven't been putting support in place. the fact they haven't done the CAMHS referral for example. You can appeal and get try to get it overturned if it happens. Otherwise I'd advise an ehcp op, his difficulties are barriers to his education and school aren't giving him the support he requires.

BettyBakesCakes · 28/01/2024 11:24

HarrietTheFireStarter · 28/01/2024 11:07

Just a thought @Bumblebee2324
My son is neurodiverse and the children's mental health service provides different support to him than to neurotypical children. I'm just wondering whether your boy may benefit from specialised type of therapy rather than regular counselling? Mine responds well to very tight structure, it helps keep anxiety at bay.

That's amazing. Where are you and what do they offer? Here nd kids just get dumped by MH services!

Bumblebee2324 · 28/01/2024 11:36

@Phineyj They are meant to upload any behaviour issues but this is what his record looks like. That’s why I’ve done a subject access request because there is nothing I can actually see on his record. These were the months before his managed move.

My DS is about to be permanently excluded- fairly urgent advice needed
My DS is about to be permanently excluded- fairly urgent advice needed
My DS is about to be permanently excluded- fairly urgent advice needed
My DS is about to be permanently excluded- fairly urgent advice needed
OP posts:
Bumblebee2324 · 28/01/2024 11:43

@Phineyj if something happened at school this is the only letter I’d receive. It isn’t logged on his behaviour record and they don’t explain why 🤷‍♀️ I’m totally in the dark here. The only incidents I know about are the ones I’ve been told about in meetings.

My DS is about to be permanently excluded- fairly urgent advice needed
OP posts:
crumblingschools · 28/01/2024 11:46

What letters did you get for the fixed term suspensions?

Apolloneuro · 28/01/2024 11:55

Don’t know if this has already been suggested, but your MP might be worth contacting.

Skyblue92 · 28/01/2024 12:14

Bumblebee2324 · 28/01/2024 11:43

@Phineyj if something happened at school this is the only letter I’d receive. It isn’t logged on his behaviour record and they don’t explain why 🤷‍♀️ I’m totally in the dark here. The only incidents I know about are the ones I’ve been told about in meetings.

OP,

if you can’t see any behaviour logs then either staff are not logging the behaviour or he isn’t as bad as they make out. If that’s the only contact regarding behaviour you have then you will have a case to over turn any PEX as you can state that as far as you are concerned there is no behaviour issues because of this (then show the screenshots). Any decent panel would over turn it. Speak to a solicitor or someone who advocates in this type of thing. Schools have to accept an advocate at hearings. From what your posts suggest is seems that the school are hoping you pull your child out first as they probably know that a PEX would not be upheld.

also screenshot once a week behaviour records. That way you have evidence if suddenly records appear (I say this even as a teacher myself as we have to update at the end of the lesson/end of the day at the latest) that way you have a case to show that you can’t be certain these incidents happened.

Beautiful3 · 28/01/2024 12:23

I would home school him.

perfectstorm · 28/01/2024 12:24

So sorry if this has already been said - I genuinely don't have time to read the thread, but this is potentially really useful info, so I am breaking MN etiquette in case nobody else has mentioned it.

A charity exists to provide free legal support and advice for kids at risk of permanent exclusion from school, the School Exclusion Project.

So sorry you are contending with all this, OP. I send solidarity and sympathy.

The School Exclusion Project

The School Exclusion Project provides free legal representation to challenge permanent school exclusion. We specialise in cases involving SEN and disability

https://schoolexclusionproject.com

RhubarbGingerJam · 28/01/2024 12:46

The only incidents I know about are the ones I’ve been told about in meetings.

Are his actual teachers complaining - I ask because we had a frankly bizarre situation with DS last year.

He'd clearly got on SLT shit list somehow - had all kinds of accusation included serious ones - and yet frequently it turned out to be impossible for it to be him or so exaggerated or vague claims that crumbled upon even basic questions being asked - yet they still wanted him punished.

When we actually got to speak to his teachers they couldn't have been more positive - quiet well behaved polite always tried his best they seem shocked at what was going on at least to our faces. He's at college now and his teachers there couldn't be more positive no issues at all.

I'd follow Skyblue92 advice about screen shot of once a week behaviour records - as I have to say I was very shocked at wiliness of SLT to outright lie to us. I personally wouldn't have believed it if it hadn't happened to us. It's possible here behavior not just being logged - but still if there not letting you know what the behavior is it's not helpful.

NotEnoughRoom · 28/01/2024 12:56

Another school governor here, I often sit on panels to review decisions to permanently exclude, and panels I have been on have reinstated students if the school have not followed process, or if the sanction was harsher than the incident warranted.

I’m don’t have experience of the PRU mentioned, so can’t say where your son would be better in the long run, but happy to review the exclusion paperwork for you if that would help?

Mumof2NDers · 28/01/2024 12:56

OP
We were in a very similar position 2 years ago when DS2 was also 14.
He’d never really liked school. He moved high schools one term into year 7 (the first school was too big and wasn’t meeting his needs, ADHD)
He struggled to make a friend group but ultimately did. He was soon ostracised by them though when he wouldn’t join in with their banter (bullying and piss taking) so school was already difficult.
What followed was the death of his nan (MIL), his grandad (DF) his brothers best mate (21) and the suicide of one of his friends (14)
DS fell apart in a big way (think goodbye notes and vanishing in the middle of the night)His anxiety levels were also sky high.
He started refusing to go to school. When he was there he wasn’t engaging and was struggling. The ex friend group were goading him and on a couple of occasions DS did retaliate and was always the one punished for it. They knew everything he’d been through but pursued me relentlessly re the low attendance. For me his MH was more important than his education so I fought back. They mentioned a managed move, I refused, he needed time to heal. Eventually they referred him to a team for alternative setting education but still pursued me. He engaged with the team well so school decided he was ready to go back and tried to force him to attend sessions linked to school promising they weren’t trying to get him back to school. They lied. Eventually I just told them I had no intention of making him go back there.
A PRU was suggested but I was advised against it by someone involved with it because he wasn’t “that child”
He went to a small privately run unit in the end but it was too little too late and he left without any GCSE’s.
He’s in a much better place now mentally and has decided on a life in the military. He starts at a military preparation college next week.
Very long winded way of saying I wouldn’t fight to keep him in a place he’s not happy. There are other options out there.
Good luck whatever you decide.
You sound like a fantastic mum, keep at it.
x

Phineyj · 28/01/2024 12:59

That's rubbish OP!

Ours would say e.g.

Was rude to staff
Refused to give name
Forgot book
No homework
Playing football in no games area

Etc etc

And each would have staff name, subject code and location on.

I have to look over lists of these for my tutees sometimes and there's no doubt at all about what's been done/said.

crumblingschools · 28/01/2024 13:08

And when the PEX panel is convened all parties should be given copies of all relevant paperwork. If incidents haven’t been logged correctly, very likely PEX would be overturned.

Panels I am on always have report/representative from LA inclusion officer who will also have access to the pack (which their report, which is basically guidance for the panel, not judgement, will be based on)