To get the children christened if DH doesn’t believe.

[Bonniebonchoco]

AIBU to get the children christened if DH and his family don’t believe. DH believes religion causes war and suffering and is not supportive of same sex relationships and is basically a tool to suppress uprising in poverty stricken counties where citizens fear the church.

I was brought up RC and would attend Church around 10 times a year with family . I went a RC school . I am very open minded and feel religion ( in all its forms ) was something which I enjoyed learning about and have taken some comfort in.
I am really open minded and never felt that religion caused me to judge others or myself . I only attend church a few times a year - Christmas and Easter .

I would like my twins ( aged 18 months ) to be christened . After much discussion, DH will compromise and allow them to be christened COE but not RC.

I do not want a big fuss made and a party. I want a low key christening during service and that’s it. I have spoken to the COE and the Reverend is happy to christen the children .However - I just can’t help feel this doesn’t make sense if DH isn’t fully on board . DH is very supportive and usually very laid back however he and his family do not like religion. I respect DH and don’t want to bulldoze him.

I am tired as I have had two babies and i just don’t know if I should press on with the christening plan and cause ‘stress’ from the opposing views . Or if this is my wish for my children then I just make it simple, organize it and do it and anyone who doesn’t want to attend doesn’t need to come .

I want the children to have the option of attending the local faith school where I attended but the head teacher has explained I will need the children christened for them to stand a chance of getting in.
DH said he will look at all schools and of this is the best suited for us the children can attended.

AIBU to push ahead ? I don’t want to cause friction but I don’t want to just people please.

Physic show? I’m genuinely confused as to what you mean lol are you saying I blame religion for human nature? I’m saying religion is not needed at all and human nature is all we have got and I think the world would be better without any sort of religion

Of course, Christianity has had a heavy influence on Western discourse about morality, but if you think that Christians invented basic concepts such as morality and love, you're a fool.

I think it's better to wait until they're old enough to decide. I was christened as was my sister for some reason, I think it was just what people did in the 80s both my parents are atheists ate 3/4 of my grandparents! I am atheist and so is my sister. So just because you Christen the it doesn't really mean much!

@Ihopeithinkiknow I'm sorry- I am now completely confused about who said what in that complicated quotation. If you'll forgive me, I won't try to sort it out. I'm sorry if I misrepresented you.

I’m a churchgoer and there was no debate in my house on this matter - I made it clear that DH didn’t have to be there if he didn’t want to.

MIL would have been furious with him if he hadn’t.

Does your DH know that he’ll be asked to confirm his faith if he takes part as a parent?

I have ignored you several times.

I am not at all doing this for school as you are so desperate to say.
I have not said for school . I said it means the children could attend a RC school in the future .

I have explained it is because I believe and I would like my children to be christened as it would give me a sense of reassurance . I then have more detail about my family who are both religious and that to me it is a slightly cultural element.

@CurlewKate
if I wanted my children to go to RC school I would just get them christened. However I am questioning if it is right to get them christened due to DH!
So stop your narrative that I am just trying to get my darlings into the local Catholic school. You have been very rude on this thread .

I was christened a Catholic as a baby. I went to a Christian school (no denomination) and am not a religious adult at all.

I can honestly say, hand on heart, I feel most unaffected by the fact my parents chose to christen me. I am not traumatised, I was not indoctrinated to start a religious war, I feel no way about it whatsoever. It's a service where words are said, there will be no lasting harm.

I'm more resentful about the weird mullet haircut my parents foisted upon me as a child than I am about being christened.

No buffet afterwards though? That's sinful.

Never read any of your posts.

It isn't a compromise, it is a blatant lie, with the intention to deceive (for a school place) and therefore in their RC book a sin.

I don't believe in any of this nonsense, but anyone who professes to have and actually believe in their religion could at least take it seriously.

They absolutely are interchangeable as far as the RC church is concerned.

Christian baptism in the name of the Trinity, using natural water, is valid baptism, in the eyes of the RC church.

I think there’s some confusion here between baptism and confirmation.

The reason for baptism in the Roman Catholic Church is for entry into the church but it is primarily to remove original sin and for salvation. A baby is too young to decide whether to be baptised so their parents make that decision. When the child is attained the age of reason (7) in the Catholic Church, they can chose to be confirmed - normally as a teenager. That is because the church recognises that they have not made an active decision to be baptised or not as an infant and to continue their membership of the church. If you do believe in Catholic teachings then you can’t wait for your child to make a decision as to whether to be baptised as your decision is essentially operating as an insurance policy for them on the basis that if they think it’s a load of nonsense then no harm done. However, if they do believe in the teachings of the church, they will have wanted to be baptised as soon as possible

Re: the point that the Catholic Church will accept another Christian baptism so long as it is Trinitarian and the child can then go onto receive the sacraments, that’s correct but only up to a certain point. The baptism will be recognised as valid. However there will a long period of catechism at the discretion of the priest as a child has to be received into the Catholic Church before they can receive the sacraments.

You can’t just rock up with an 8 year old and say they have been baptised CofE, that’s an acceptable Christian denomination so they have a right of entry onto a first Holy communion prep class and to access sacraments. They are not a member of the Catholic Church. The first thing the priest will want to see is a baptism certificate to ensure the child is baptised Roman Catholic - not just a baptised Christian. If the children are being prepped at school, a letter is normally sent out saying only children who have been baptised in the Roman Catholic faith can start preparations. Anyone else must speak to the priest about preparing their child for reception into the church first. That is normally by way of the RCIC course. To receive a sacrament (particularly the Eucharist) without being a member of the Catholic Church can be deemed to be a mortal sin and would certainly cause grave offence.

To be received into the Catholic Church (after another Christian denomination baptism), a priest must be sure that the child will be supported in their Catholic faith - who will take them to Mass etc? The priest will want to understand why the child (with one Catholic parent) has been baptised in the Church of England. Presenting it and some kind of “middle ground” is a bit odd to be honest and would probably mean that the priest would want to have a period of discernment with the parents. I would strongly recommend you speak to priest before you go down this route as it could have unintended consequences.

separately, most catholic schools will always prioritise children who are baptised Catholics over any other Christian baptism in over subscription categories. It maybe the school is under subscribed now but they could change. However, if you do want your children to be educated at a Catholic school, the best way to do that, is to have them baptised in the Catholic faith.

@NoTouch "
It isn't a compromise, it is a blatant lie, with the intention to deceive (for a school place) and therefore in their RC book a sin.

I don't believe in any of this nonsense, but anyone who professes to have and actually believe in their religion could at least take it seriously."

I agree. Maybe I should have put compromise in inverted commas.

Ex DP is a Christian and I am an atheist. He wanted to get DD christened. I had no objection but said I couldn't be a part of it. I'm not a hypocrite and find it odd that any atheist would participate in such a religious ritual. He chose not to get her christened as he felt he couldn't do it without me (again his choice).

And I also think any state funded schools should be allowed to have a faith requirement.

A baby is too young to decide whether to be baptised so their parents make that decision. When the child is attained the age of reason (7) in the Catholic Church, they can chose to be confirmed - normally as a teenager. That is because the church recognises that they have not made an active decision to be baptised or not as an infant and to continue their membership of the church.

That's a bit chilling. If 7 is considered the age of reason in the RC church it explains a lot of the sexual abuse that happened within its walls.

I think it is far too big a choice for any child to make such a big and personal decision. Up until the age of 18 they should be allowed (not forced) to explore what faith means to them. But deciding to actively be a member of a church is an adult decision.

IF there is a God then I doubt non-baptised children will go straight to hell by virtue of their parents having decided to not have a priest/pastor/minister/reverend chuck some water over their heads whilst saying a few words.

I think unbaptised infants who died were said to have gone to limbo.

@Mumsfishnets I mentioned the term indoctrinate in referring to RC. Indoctrination means teaching people to accept things uncritically-the RC church absolutely does this. You are not allowed to question your priest. You are not allowed to say some of the things taught are wrong. I have catholic family-and rather than question whether being on the pill is wrong-they just do it without saying anything and would lie about it. Of course, not all Catholics do that and many follow teachings to the letter but it’s not acceptable to have debate and criticism which is accepted in other denominations. It’s not disrespectful to use indoctrinate because they obey the exact definition of it.

Unless you're both on board I would really just wait and let the children decide for themselves when they are older.

But then, I chose not to christen my DC and have allowed him to make his own mind up so that's obviously going to sway my answer.

I am agnostic and absolutely abhor the Catholic Church (and most other organised religions) for the destruction they have caused to the human race. There's no way I would willingly align my child with an organisation who have raped, starved, stolen and waged war and destruction against millions, if not billions, of people the world over for centuries.

There is a difference between faith and organised religion. Faith can be a beautiful thing and bring comfort to many and you can encourage your children to have faith without aligning them with such vicious, money and power hungry people.

Sexual abuse occurred in the church and other institutions because of predatory men. Let's be under no illusions of that. Even if the age of reason was 16, children and vulnerable people would still have been abused by them. It is the age of reason with regards to being able to have a basic understanding of whether they wish to participate in membership of the church and receive sacraments - including baptism or reception into the church if they are not baptised RCs. It is nothing more than that. Confirmation is around 16 years of age usually.

The "let your children chose" bit is contrary to Christian teaching generally as the main purpose of baptism is salvation so not something to be delayed. The choice bit comes later - when the child is perfectly free to say I'm not being confirmed and/or carrying on going to Mass or whatever because I don't believe or I want to become a Sikh or whatever.

@Wooloohooloo "And I also think any state funded schools should be allowed to have a faith requirement."
Why?

Sexual abuse occurred in the church and other institutions because of predatory men. Let's be under no illusions of that.

I agree. However, the age mentioned does suggest it was an easy way for them to help justify it to themselves.

The "let your children chose" bit is contrary to Christian teaching generally as the main purpose of baptism is salvation so not something to be delayed. The choice bit comes later - when the child is perfectly free to say I'm not being confirmed and/or carrying on going to Mass or whatever because I don't believe or I want to become a Sikh or whatever.

I have two issues with that. Christian teaching clearly is about winning souls, and what is better than getting them young or when they are vulnerable/impressionable? Also, the notion that the child is perfectly free to make a decision is hardly true in stricter families/churches.

While I agree with much of what you have said @Gobbolinothewitchscat despicable sexual, physical and emotional abuse was perpetrated by women within the church as well to a very significant level. And a lot of the sexual abuse perpetrated by men was covered up by women also. Women are not completely without blame here either.

Confirmation is also much younger than 16. Communion is normally around 8 years of age and confirmation around 12.

There is a difference between faith and organised religion. Faith can be a beautiful thing and bring comfort to many and you can encourage your children to have faith without aligning them with such vicious, money and power hungry people

Absolutely perfectly put, InAPickle12345

You clearly do not know Catholic teaching. It is not a sin for the OP to have a child baptised in a CoE church. The OP also explained very carefully that she is NOT having her child baptized for any reason other than she desires it.

As 2 or 3 of us have already explained, if a child was baptised CoE, the Catholic Church considers that a valid Christian baptism. The child is not a member of the Catholic Church at that point however, and if the child wishes to join the Church and receive other Sacraments they will need to receive catechisis (teaching) and the permission of the Priest. So I agree that the OP may want to have a discussion with her Parish Priest before deciding where the parents should have their baby baptised.

As to her husband's wishes that is obviously a discussion between them.

So it's OK to lie to get them into a good school? Hmm.