That if your male child has shoulder length hair it's reasonable to expect other kids will pass comment?

[mrsfinch6]

Dropping DS5 and DS3 off at nursery this morning when the nursery manager took me aside and wanted to “discuss an incident that happened yesterday” I was a bit confused because when I had collected them both the day before everything was fine.

The “incident” was that there is a little boy at nursery with shoulder length, curly blonde hair, and DS3 has been calling him a girl.

The parent of this child went into nursery this morning to report to the staff that my DS was calling him a girl. The nursery manager wanted my assurances that I would be firm with DS at home and have “the conversation” regarding this.

AIBU to say that if you have a 4 year old male child with long blonde hair that it is realistic to expect that other children in that age group will pass comment?

DS3 is very much of the opinion that “pink is for girls, blue is for boys, girls wear dresses and boys wear trousers etc” he only likes typical boys toys, whereas DS5 is a bit less bothered, he picked a pink scooter and is partial to a unicorn, I don’t encourage or discourage either way, however I do believe in sex not gender and whilst I appreciate there are a multitude of reasons why this child has long hair, I don’t think it’s my 3 year olds issue tbh

They are very young kids and yes I have spoken to him and reiterated that we don’t tease other kids and that it’s not kind to pass comment on others appearance but honestly? Reporting it to the nursery? Talk about extreme.

You think bullying is ok?

Of course single sex toilets are more important than hair, but why not put both together?

And its a bit cheeky to ask me for statistics to support my argument when you don't provide any to support yours.

But i shouldn't be rude to you because you are, I think the first to see at least half of the point that I am trying to explore.

How does every thread on MN end up with it being about women’s bloody toilets

I agree with you. Boys need to know they are boys and that they are different from girls. I understand and agree with your reasoning for saying this. Where I disagree is the criteria you suggest we might use to reinforce the difference, because some differences are real and based in science, others are invented and based in culture, do no one any good and cause people (mainly women) harm.
So while I think its right to teach my sons they are boys and can never be girls because that's the body they have, I wouldn't teach them that because of that body they need to wear these clothes, have that haircut and do these activities. Because the first is true and the second isn't.
All children really need are the biological facts. From there you can progress in an age appropriate way to teach boys about the advantages they have due to their biology, and the priveleges they have because of how society views them, and how to manage the first responsibly and try to challenge the second.

It doesn't. Try The Litter Tray.

Of course single sex toilets are more important than hair, but why not put both together?

Why put both together? Why lie to children that you should be able to determine someone's sex by their hair length? Why deny boys and girls the self-expression of being able to choose their own hair styles?

I take it that you are unfamiliar with the metal, goth, and punk sub-cultures, in which haircuts have nothing to do with sex. I present Exhibit A, Barnsley's finest export. These five extremely manly gentlemen are in no way diminished or feminised by three of them having long hair.

Of course single sex toilets are more important than hair, but why not put both together?

Because there's no correlation?

Yabu.
None of my children have ever called another child a girl or boy because of their hair length because they were taught from a young age that hair length and clothes choices and toy choices were not gendered.

Your kid calling a child a girl by accident once fair enough but you should absolutely use the opportunity to talk to your child to make sure they understand that hair length has absolutely nothing to do with what sex you are and that boys can have long hair and that your child's behaviour is upsetting the other child and they need to stop.

@RedToothBrush
“There shouldn't be a compulsion to conform. What do you think is the heart of bullying? - power and control and forcing people to comply

You can get to fuck with that.”

I love to read a well argued and coherent response. You were winning till the last sentence.

I do realise that some boys and men have long hair and some look good with long hair. I also think self-expression is important. But as I have explained, or at least tried to explain in far too many posts, I think we have blurred the boundaries between the sexes and women are now suffering. Suffering not because boys have lovely, long, curly blond locks but because society is confused about sex and the restriction sex imposes on people.

It isn't lying to children. I accept it is controlling them and limiting them which is something I do not like, but it is not lying to them. It would simply be a societal convention which helps young children understand that boys and girls are different. When they are older they will need to learn that the sexes will be treated differently, primarily for the protection of women and girls.

Arsed.

My boys know to use the mens toilet, that they will be unable to be pregnant in the future, that one day they will shave like Daddy (or be bearded), we talk about consent. They know they are boys. I agree the single sex spaces are important.

But they have also at times had long hair, worn "girly" clothes, likes pink/rainbows/sparkles, dressed as moana rather than spiderman.

I don't see these positions as incompatible

It does seem to be an obsession with some posters.

'Why' is easy. Her " sex not gender" phrase makes it pretty clear. Happy to have her son grow up a bully provided he targets the " right" groups e.g. anyone not sticking close to gender norms. I mean, they might be trans, horrors!

Unsurprising in the extreme.

If he’s teasing, which it sounds like he is, you’re being massively unreasonable. Fact is this boy can have long hair if he wants, it’s not for your child to make fun of that. It’s probably not even the child’s choice anyway. I’d just apologise and make it clear it’s bad behaviour and ask nursery for let you know if it happens again

Excellent teaching your boys to victim blame from day 1! Excellent role modelling.

your 3 year old is a bully and your saying the kid deserves it.

top notch parenting.

Little lad with the long hair will be getting his difference pointed out on a regular basis as he gets older I’m afraid, whatever the well meaning adults in his life try to do to protect him

Sadly you are probably right, @Fidelius - but we can work towards a world where people are accepting of other people’s differences, and where it is not only OK, but utterly unremarkable for a boy to have long hair, wear make up etc - and that begins with challenging attitudes like the OP’s, that ‘boys have short hair, girls have long hair’ - as if that is some law of nature, and with parents teaching their children that it is unacceptable to tease others for their looks/choices

Ds has only rarely had his hair length pointed out to him and only by people who didn’t know him.

Ds hated having his hair or fingernails cut. I used to do his nails by torch light when he was fast asleep. His hair I let him grow. He had a few tiny trims now and then but it was quite stressful if I might cut too much off.

At nursery and school all the other boys wanted their hair long. I think because Ds had great confidence and the incident in the park only furthered his standing with his classmates.

You can treat children the same it doesn’t mean they think they are and they still know the differences between being male and female.
If anything treating boys differently and placing restrictions around what they can or can’t do might even lead to resentment later on in life.

Saying only boys have short hair and girls have long hair is the type of thing that could lead to some children questioning their very sex.

If anything the Trans movement is just gender stereotyping taken to the next level. Cutting out any self expression that doesn’t conform with the gender stereotype
There is no place to like pink clothes and have long hair and still be male.

I think the reason people are piling on is because you aren’t saying that he’s got mixed up and thinks this child is a boy, but is teasing as he thinks boys don’t have long hair. If it’s the first and he genuinely just thinks the child is a girl that’s fine, but if he’s making fun then you have a word. I don’t think anyones saying the child needs locking up, but you need to address it if he’s upset another child.

Stop rolling your eyes at people, @mrsfinch6

YOU started the thread, seeking people’s opinions!

It’s just a bizarre thread to even start, if you’re so convinced you’re right?!

You asked people what they thought, and people are telling you.

It’s OK for kids to make mistakes when they’re young - it’s perfectly normal! But the response of an adult isn’t to react the way you did. It certainly isn’t to come on MN and garner opinions.

It’s just to have the chat with your kid, as you’ve done.

If the parent of the other child hadn’t raised it, your child would quite possibly have continued commenting. They (quite rightly, to quote you) wanted to nip that in the bud.

Now move on.

I'm enjoying being a man on this thread.
You imply that you are a woman. If you are your post illustrates that you still have to learn how to interact civilly with those you perceive as male.
You think sarcasm, scoffing and abuse abuse are the way forward. That is rather sad .

Actually at my DD's nursery and now reception the boys and girls use the same toilets. They are single toilets like you would get a home with the toilet the right height and size for a small child.

It's only when they are older, so no longer EYFS, do they use separate toilets.

I can't believe a 3 year old supports such strong outdated stereotypes unless they have been taught that way. The fact that you yourself have said they are right to think boys have short and girls long is the problem, you are teaching these views and then when your kid is pulled up for probably innocently saying something they've learned you're getting annoyed with the nursery.

This.

in the real world pretty much all of us would mistake him for a girl, that’s the reality (despite the hordes on here who’ll claim ‘I’d never assume a child with long blonde curly hair wasn’t a girl’).

The way forward is to just let your child know he is a boy and just happens to have longer hair. No fuss, no complicated explanations and certainly no allowing him to be picked on because of his hair.

My DD once went to Nursery with, heaven forbid, blue dungarees with a dinosaur on the front, she was so incredibly upset at being called a boy.

Once you are told X is a boy, you don't keep calling them a girl.

This is whether you are 3 or 73.

You may if you are aged 1-4 get "he", "she" and "it" mixed up,

So it isn't uncommon for a 3 year old to say things like "X is a boy" and in the next sentence say "She threw me the ball".