Male born person wins women’s golf tournament and is now “worried about his safety” - interviewed by GMB (Title edited by MNHQ)

[HermioneKipper]

Why the hell are GMB gaslighting women with this stuff?

https://twitter.com/GMB/status/1749329378352275568

This is an enormous male-bodied person - even larger than the interviewing man!

Post edited by MNHQ

Boggles my mind that people don't seem to understand this, or if they do can still find ways to defend it. Slow hand clap for the women willing to prioritise the feelings of men over women. All make blanket statements like 'all trans women are harmless'.

Well done you.

So you agree to call them whatever they want because it matters to them - yet what matters to women is overridden?

If women who took testosterone measured at even half the same levels as men who lower theirs [and say they are women], they would be banned from competition.

Good god YOU are boring. At least have a crack at explaining what transphobia you see. Posters like you just embarrass yourself. You pop up, shout transphobia with NOTHING to back it up, maybe a wee 'oh have a look the FWR board' and then you slope off never to appear again.

Have a day off.

If these men are having problems with other men they should take it up with those other men.

It's not up to women to sort it out.

It’s a very grim picture when you fall down the rabbit hole of bottom surgery. I don’t think trans people should be having this to feel validated. Then again nothing to me would visage a man becoming a woman.

What I DO advocate for is men being able to express themselves in whatever way they like without the labels. Wanna wear a skirt and lipstick? Great! Go for it! MORE breaking down gender stereotypes please. Just don’t claim it makes you female

I think you need to actually look beyond the rhetoric of ‘trans excluding’ and think here.

What makes you think anyone you put in the TERF category is against female people competing in female sports or being in female spaces?

Trans men are female - even if they don’t want to be.

Arguing that people should use the correct provision according to their biological sex is only ‘trans excluding’ if you believe trans people should have the right to decide they are the exception to this and use the opposite sex provision. Even then, the point is not excluding or hating trans people. It’s simply the principle that people have a right to single sex provision in circumstances where it makes a difference.

This thread is about fairness in sport and whether natal males should be able to compete in single sex competitions for natal females.

The issues at hand are: should competitions be single sex in the first place and if so, under what circumstances (if any) should natal males be able to compete in them.

I find accusations of transphobia, hate and discussions about pronouns deflect from the substantive points that ultimately boils down to inclusion versus fairness.

I believe that you can be non hateful and have a preference for either.

I do struggle with anyone who suggests single sex competition is important for fairness for females, but also argue to include some natal males in the female category on the basis of inclusion.

A final note, determining access to single sex categories by natal sex, does not impose exclusion on anyone. People may self exclude by choice, as they don't want to compete with their natal sex, but this isn't 'banning them'.

That's a good point.

Cheat and thief of women's prizes.

to be fair i often don't look/dress/act like a (stereotype) woman. right now I'm wearing big socks, tracksuit bottoms, a metal band t-shirt and a hoody that my DCs bought for DH but he doesn't wear so i do (from the men's department of a clothes shop)

I am wearing no make up, i have short hair, no jewellery and no nailvarnish.

A person with gender dysphoria may never ever do that because part of their dysphoria is focused on the stereotype. The people who use Malaga airport definitely won't dress like me today because reasons.

That isn't an issue for me. The issue is biological men in places biological men shouldn't be. Including a women's golf competition.

I am just leaving this here so you can see how many women are being robbed of their rightful wins, dignity and places/scholarships etc. it's sickening!

https://www.shewon.org/

I wonder why they did turn off comments, why does it matter to them if people think this is unfair? Do they usually turn of comments, or just for this issue 🤐

But we mustn't be disrespectful. That would truly be terrible.

This is shocking

GMB have highlighted this, I don't follow golf, I would have no idea about this.
I guess they turned comments off, so that they wouldn't have to pull the article, due to accusations of hate.
I don't think they were supporting the golfer at all. It's a very clever way to highlight injustice.

I completely agree.

The only way to look/behave like a woman is to be one. If something (sport, prisons, refuges, changing facilities, prizes) are categorised as women's/men's then they should be restricted to actual women/men.

An extra category for transwomen just gives men another category in which to compete and win medals, when women's sport already does not have parity with men's in terms of funding, coverage etc. So it's not fair unless you also have a category for transmen. The problem with that is you're creating a category where doping (taking testosterone) is allowed. You're also creating two far smaller pools of competitors, thus increasing the likelihood of winning. You're doing this based on identity alone, as there is no way to meaningfully distinguish between "genuine trans" (whatever that means) and someone identifying into the trans category in order to increase their likelihood of success. The caveat is that they have to alter their body in harmful ways, either by taking cross-sex hormones or drugs to reduce their hormones.

I think this would be a real slippery slope in terms of athletes being encouraged/forced into altering their bodies to enter the trans category, which is highly unethical. We have already seen this with Caster Semenya - a male athlete with a DSD. Men with DSDs are scouted because they are guaranteed medals if they compete in the women's category. This is obviously unfair on women athletes, but it is also exploiting the male athletes in usually poorer countries who will suffer the health consequences of lowering their testosterone.

At the end of the day not everyone has the ability to compete in elite sport, whether down to genetics, choice or a combination of both. If you choose to make alterations to your body that doesn't necessarily give you the right to your own category of sport. Trans people are not a third group of people; they are men and women with varying body modifications. They should compete in an open category with men, and there should be a female-only category.

Yep. I also think people who think TW competing is fine should ask themselves: why are sports segregated by sex on the first place?

I think GMB know exactly what they are doing here, which is highlighting the absurdity and unfairness. They probably got the interview on the ticket of allowing the golfer to be plaintif about death threats, but managed to emphasise the bulk, get the golfer to agree that it is unfair etc.

I had to laugh though. Having to keep alert when out at night? Clearly the first time the golfer has ever felt vulnerable when out at night…that’s being a woman for you!

I was just thinking about this. I grew up in the 70s and 80s so i well remember the DDR female athletes, and i have read about their later troubles and early deaths.

But theoretically, if there is an agreed lower threshold for testosterone for TW in sport, and women were allowed to raise their testosterone levels (from pre- or onset- of puberty i guess) to the same level what would the outcome be? Would the playing field be somewhat levelled (although height, leg and arm length etc may not be affected in the girls/women?)

Not that anyone should be taking testosterone to prove this. Again we saw what happened to those girls/women in the DDR. It was obscene.

Just noting. GMB have updated their Tweet. (my bold)

Original:

'Hailey Davidson reveals she’s received a number of anti-trans messages - including death threats - since becoming the first-ever transgender player to win a female field event. She also accepts some trans athletes do have an advantage when playing against women in sports'

Update:

'Exclusive: Hailey Davidson reveals she’s received a number of anti-trans messages - including death threats - since becoming the first-ever transgender player to win a female field event. She also accepts some trans athletes do have an advantage in women’s sports.'

I have screenshots saved.

Why?

Just so i can be clear before i get indignant.

Are you telling me to think about what i said right before you paraphrase what i said. Or are you just emphasising what i said and agreeing with it?

As much as you have Sharron Davies, Martina, Daily Thompson etc stating that this is unfair, you then have Tom Daley and Gary Lineker saying that trans women are women and as such, it is unfair to exclude them from women only sport. And I cannot understand how they can possibly think that? How on earth can these sport men not understand how unfair women find it?