To feel so guilty about wrap around care.

[Giantwaterbottle4]

I know I am probably not unreasonable but I just feel awful about my kids being in wrap around care. They are 5 and 3 and both have to go to breakfast club and after school club.
They don't get home until 5 and are out of the house by 7:30. I just feel like this is not how life should be and not how envisaged parenting!

Is this really the norm? Or am I failing them and have set them for exhaustion and burnout when they are so young.

It doesn't help that they both say they miss me, especially the younger one and that they don't want to go. Once they are there they both seem happy and have good days but they are always so tired when home

Women shouldn't automatically be assumed to be the default parent, but OP's concern is that the children are doing long days in wraparound every day after school, and likely through the holidays too. Without family support it's impossible. If you are single it's holiday club whenever you can't take leave and if you are a couple you end up splitting all your leave to lessen the holiday club bills. And then wraparound all term. Not cheap or we easy. We made it work by both working shifts around each other but that too is difficult

I’ve never had any of the ‘omg you’re abandoning your children for an iPhone’ types object when the entire team resuscitating their desperately ill child is made up of working parents whose children are being cared for by someone else, usually for long periods (there’s no two days a week 10-2 roles in these jobs). They seem to be able to control stupid comments then, and seem glad enough to see those selfish working parents (like their own working partners:………always interesting to see what people really think of the person whose paid work allows them to stay at home). So I wouldn’t worry about thoughtless comments like that.

If the current balance of your dual role as parents (caring for your child and financially supporting your child) isn’t working, is there any option for change?

@pointythings

It's the one that gets thrown at working mums everywhere. The 'you aren't raising your own children', the 'you're farming them out to strangers'. And it's nonsense because as a parent, you still spend the majority of every single day with your children

You say that but its not true if in the OPs situation the kids are out the door at 07.30 and not back in until.5pm - at their age they are in bed by about 6.30 - thats just fact. I have never said that in derogatory way, its just fact. You can have a mum do more in an hour than another in 6hours.

That is what I object to - the fact that you are agreeing with the poster who posted the same old sneer

Its not a sneer, in this case its true for the working week

And a sneer is exactly what it is

Its not a sneer, its fact for the week they use wrap around care.

An implication that as a working mum, you're doing it for the 'luxuries', and that if you only cut your cloth, made sacrifices, you'd be able to be a SAHM. That is what needs to stop because it is NOT TRUE

Wow, i never said any of that or agreed with saying working mums do it for luxuries or anything about them making scarafices to be a SAHM - what on earth are you on about ??? i didn't say that

I clearly say its a balancing act. I say its an individual choice, i say it doesn't matter what anyone on this thread thinks it what the OP thinks that counts .

And of course there are some working parents out there who can't do breakfast or homework - people who work shifts are an obvious example

Yes as i highlighted because you are grouping working mums all the same listing off what they do as if there is a mum checklist- there isnt - i say they are no less for not being able to do those things

But you are supporting the contention that they are lesser parents because they do not stay at home

No i didnt- no one mentioned anything about staying at home - that didnt even enter my quotes at all !! So please stop adding your frustrations on to me. Only quote me on what i say.
I didnt even think the OP was talking about staying at home ???

That is what has to stop

No, it has to stop that you are jumping on me for things i haven't said.

If you have a more nuanced view then don't support or agree with people who judge working mothers - because the reality is a lot more nuanced than 'you aren't there for them'

Did you even read my post - i don't judge working mums - i made it clear that the OP should only care about how they felt about it are they not other people on here trying to tell them they are wrong or right when every circumstance is different. The OP says this is not how she envisaged parenting, so i asked about her - no sweeping statements, no judgments at all. You have it sooo wrong.

Don't feel guilty. You are doing your best x

Many men feel guilty and inadequate if they can't put bread on the table or bring home the bacon. the patriarchy placed enormous demands on men too. As a teacher I would have expected you to know that.

Wow thank you for all the replies, advice and opinions. I am sorry I am only just getting back, (ironically) have been at work then sorting the kids haha. I have read them all and it took a while and I truly appreciate the messages of support.

I do have a DH and he also works full time. His job is a little more flexible sometimes, it's a trade so can be away for a while then off for a little so he picks the kids up and drops off when he can.

I work because I have to, as others have mentioned and no it isn't for luxury/handbag or spending money it's for bills, house, car, food etc.

I think I will see if I can utilise some flexibility time with work better.

I sometimes can pick them up at 4 and every night we have dinner together and bath and bed, story. In the morning we have some time and every weekend. We also mange holidays with annual leave so they aren't in clubs etc then.

It really has been very reassuring reading most of these comments.

I do agree that it's sad that life is like this but I also think about all the awful situations people are in with their kids around the world who'd do anything for this life and try to remind myself. I also remind myself that kids my kids age used to be made go to work themselves! When I think about those things I wonder if this ideal world I imagine where parents spend the entire day with their kids and so whatever it is you're "supposed to" (think homeschooling instgram mums) ever existed!

Some men do have that guilt. My DH doesn't mention it often a specific but it's there in other things he says. Such as "I wish we could have one of us home with her" or the days she's clinging to me crying cos she doesn't want to go in (rare but happens) "I wish I earned more" or "I'm trying to win the lottery". He feels it. He wants our child to be with us more. He does pick up but he calls me from the car the second his ETA goes up by a minute so we can work out if I could get there quicker, so she's not there longer.

He takes on as much of the financial load as he can so that I can work part time, which we decided on together because of how our jobs work. The second I found out I was pregnant he started doing more training/development at work to increase his income. He started saving and investing more. Everything he does is to give ya the family life we want, or as close to it as we can get it with financial restraints.

And on top of all that, his full time job that he works really hard at to support us, he supports my career too. Which I also worked really hard to get to where it is. And luckily I was senior enough when DD came along that part time won't harm it. I can still go on work trips because he will happily use his annual leave to be here for DD if needs be. He does the pick ups so I can take the meetings that our director loves to put in later. Whatever I need, he will cover it. So if he can't, I know he actually can't. Never won't.

Sorry you seem to only have experience of rubbish men. But there are good fathers and husbands out there that have the same feelings as mothers and wives. They just sometimes get communicated differently.

I had to have wrap around care too because I was a single mum. I hated it. It wasn't how I wanted to bring up my child. I wanted a more traditional mum role being at home with my child until he was older but my exH just left and went abroad. I would have considered going onto benefits for a few years but it wouldn't pay the mortgage.
I still feel bad about it 40 years later. I feel my ex let his son down
I didn't have a child to hand him over to strangers.

the kids are out the door at 07.30 and not back in until.5pm - at their age they are in bed by about 6.30 - thats just fact.
Bed at 6.30pm at age 5 sounds unusual, rather than factual. Even at age 3! At 3 my daughter went to bed at 7, so would have had two hours with me after a 5pm pickup; now, at 5, she’s asleep at 8pm – and up at 6am. What I wouldn't give to farm out the early mornings to strangers…!

It was normal for me. No reduced hours, working from home etc. Everyone had a 9-5 job involving a commute so just had to get on with it. If there are other options now for you to explore then great, I’m glad there’s more flexibility now for working parents. But your kids will be fine if not.

I understand how you feel OP.

When I first went back to work after DS1 he was in childcare from 7am to 5pm three days a week. Some days he was asleep when I left and asleep when I got home. It was really hard and I felt such guilt. I worked as a nurse though so I was out the house for 14 hours with his dad doing all childcare drop-offs and collections.

After DS2 I dropped my hours so I only had to work two days a week (25 hours) which did help.

When my youngest started school I took on a really exciting new job role but it required me to work different hours which meant the children were in before and after school clubs from 7.30am to 5.30pm. It just wasn’t what I wanted ☹️

When I was a child me and my sister were always in wrap-around care and my parents had absolutely no choice, which we understood, but we really missed spending time with them. We’d spend on average about 3 hours a day with them (Mon-Fri) and it just didn’t seem enough.

My husband had experienced the same and so before even trying for children we had agreed that as much as possible we would avoid childcare and I would be at home with them if I could which is why we changed around with my hours so much when they were pre-school age.

Sadly I had to leave my job 8 months ago for ill-health reasons which meant we didn’t have to use wrap around care anymore and I have to say that it’s been really lovey being able to spend so much more time with my children who are 6 and 10 now as I see them for about 8 hours a day.

Every person is in different situations though and if I had the choice of staying in my current state of health and seeing my children so much or having my health problems disappear and use wrap-around care for work purposes then I would choose the latter.

All anyone can do is the best in their own circumstances and sadly mums are always judged more than fathers, in my opinion anyway.

It’s natural for you to feel the way you do but please don’t let yourself feel any guilt because you are doing what you need to do in order to look after your children and give them a good quality of life.

Its this way for alot of children op, don't feel bad you need to work to provide for them. My children now don't need to go to wrap around care as they are older but they still moan about not wanting to go to school.

Flip it around and see the benefits too, they are seeing you working and providing for them and that will instill a work ethic in them. They are getting prepared for a future work life by learning to get up and out the house daily. They get to spend time with friends of various ages and wrap around care does alot of fun activities - arts and crafts, games that they will be having fun and developing their characters from (better than alot of kids just sat infront of a tv/device before or after school). The money you make allows you all to have a better lifestyle.

Its understandable they will be tired as they are still quite young but as they grow up they'll be less tired and their bedtimes will be later and you can spend more time with them.

You didn't let your son down. He was lucky to have you.

Unfortunately its normal. And very much needed in a lot of cases.

I worked in a nursery for a few years and it was shocking how much time these children spent with us. Many from 7.30am - 6.15pm when we closed.(always had complaints/requests about closing time and could we stay open it to work around work commitments.

For extra money I often brought some of the children home and babysit for the night while parents had other commitments and I'd I'd see their routine..almost 12 hours at creche, come home, few minutes to play, dinner, bath, story bed by 7.30/, mental
.
.

If kids are away from you that long because you have to keep a roof over their heads, feed them and cant afford to work less..fine. but if its just to have "me time' or extras that aren't actually needed, then I feel its unreasonable.

I work.in an ASC. I think it's child dependent there are some children we have who can't handle it and it makes me sad. Crying, not engaging with others etc. Others live it and have all their bestie around them. They are much loved by us and they love us all too!!

It has not been the norm for ever. When my children were young 30–35 years ago very few mothers worked full time. When I was a child very few mothers with children at home (up to 18 years) did. My mother did work once her youngest child went to school and I did the same - part time and flexibly.
i know times and economics have changed but I really wish that those with under 5s who don’t want to work didn’t have to. I would have been so sad to have missed those years with my children - even though it was boring at times and we had very little money.
This is where the idea of universal income would work so well.

If a kid is going to bed at 6:30, a SAHM isn’t spending the majority of the day with their school aged kid either – so why bother with the differentiation?

This guilt is only so large at this point in time because society is in a transitional period of it becoming more common for both parents to be out at full-time work. We therefore don’t have decades behind us to say that something is ‘the norm’ to not let ‘guilt’ come into it, or to see the effect of what full-time hours of childcare have on a young person. Who knows, maybe they will be positive – they may end up more confident, socialised, resilient beings. Something moving from uncommon to common over time isn’t inherently bad.

What if homeschooling by your SAHM was once the societal norm and then one day out-of-home schools popped up? You can bet women would have been criticised for sending them to schools too. But formal schooling is the norm, therefore it’s fine, even though gasp you are allowing strangers to educate and care for your child for double gasp 6-6.5hrs a day.

Things will improve, the children will stay up later and the summer will come and the evenings don’t feel so short.

I think what you need to do is sit with your husband and see if you can sort out that you do pick them up earlier one night a week. Even see if it is something you can work out with work that you have a slightly earlier finish one night.

This was my situation too as a single mum. My youngest also found it a bit harder. It continued until they started secondary school and could walk to school and come back on their own.

When they were in their late teens, I asked them to be totally honest with me and to tell me if they wished it had been different. Both of them looked horrified at the question and said that they had a lovely childhood, that they didn't mind going to wrap around care and holiday clubs, that it taught them self-discipline, they learned to make friends easy and ultimately, it allowed me to work FT, earn reasonable money that meant I was able to give them many opportunities and wonderful memories of great holidays.

Their words. Don't feel guilty.

Also parenting these days is very intensive - people like to extol the virtues of prior years where they headed out on their bikes with a gang of friends and just had to be home for dinner! For some reason this is presented as wholesome and lovely, not neglectful. But somehow the same concept in a school hall after 3.30 is shameful and guilt inducing

This is very true

Rose tinted glasses somehow have mothers of the past dedicating 24 hours a day to nurturing their children AND kids being sent off the play independently from a young age.

Tbh after school care which involves interacting with a range of other children, arts/crafts, games, sports, imaginative play with a group, reading etc is providing a lot of stimulation and development for kids and keeps them off screens

I'm not sure that would be the ideal either. Women have fought so hard for equality, including within the workplace but we still aren't 100% there yet and if it was made optional for parents with under 5's to work, it would be largely women who would take that up. It would make it more difficult for women who did want to continue to work because companies would be looking at women of childbearing age and think why bother? they'll get pregnant and stop working for 5 years.

If a kid is going to bed at 6:30, a SAHM isn’t spending the majority of the day with their school aged kid either – so why bother with the differentiation?

Why is this quoted at me ??? I never did mention SAHP ?? What on earth are you talking at me about ?

Well no I agree that that wouldn’t be ideal either - it was just the way things were I suppose. Let’s be honest there never will be an ideal solution and in many careers taking 10 or even 5 years out is certainly not an option. Unfortunately choices have to be made - for fathers as well as mothers- and we should of course continue to campaign for cheaper, high quality childcare.

This is such an interesting and valid point! Thank you