To feel so guilty about wrap around care.

[Giantwaterbottle4]

I know I am probably not unreasonable but I just feel awful about my kids being in wrap around care. They are 5 and 3 and both have to go to breakfast club and after school club.
They don't get home until 5 and are out of the house by 7:30. I just feel like this is not how life should be and not how envisaged parenting!

Is this really the norm? Or am I failing them and have set them for exhaustion and burnout when they are so young.

It doesn't help that they both say they miss me, especially the younger one and that they don't want to go. Once they are there they both seem happy and have good days but they are always so tired when home

Teacher here and very normal amongst my colleagues. DH and I haven’t family so mine (12, 9) have been in wraparound since reception. DD no longer needs it and lets herself out and in. Do men feel guilty? Do they fuck and fuck all the judgemental arses too. I’ve bloody worked hard to be a professional and a mother is only part of my identity. I maybe selfish but I also don’t want to forgo and good quality of life by not working.

Also laughing at “strangers” looking after children, like working parents just dump their kids with some random and not DBS checked, qualified staff 😂

I never said anything about mothers or fathers. I don't think the OP mentioned if they were male or female?

In fact many people do have lots of luxuries, it's not unreasonable to suggest prioritising time with preschool aged children over material things. Obviously not everyone has that choice but many do.

Just to say OP, to you and anybody else reading this who feels guilty about wraparound care....

I've never had to use wraparound care, but that extra 1.5 hours in the morning and 1.5 hours in the evening is really not exactly quality time with my children. In the mornings, I barely see them, as they are getting dressed, eating breakfast etc, while I am preparing breakfast, sorting their bags etc. Also, I'm a little stressed getting them out the house on time, so I'm a bit grumpy. Then when they come home from school, they are all tired, so they either do their homework or watch some TV for an hour. It only really becomes quality time with them once dinner is ready and we all eat together, and then story time at bedtime etc.

I know I've simplified it all a bit, but my main message is that those periods of time shortly before and after school, are really not my favourite/most rewarding times with my children.

We all just do what we have to do. Guilt is a wasted emotion, unless you use it to make changes. If change is not possible, then ditch the guilt!

Hopefully a 3 year old sleeps more than 5.7 hours a day.
Using a more realistic amount of 12 hours sleep a day that leaves 34 hours with parents

I don't know anyone whose child is in wraparound care morning and evening 5 days a week - it's actually not normal at all. Given there are 175 kids in the primary school and 26 places in the wraparound care, which only operates Mon to Thurs anyway, clearly it's not "normal". People tend to use it for a couple of days a week and juggle working hours and grandparents. We are in a relatively average mixed area. It's the middle class, better off parents here who mainly work long hours and use wraparound care. It's too expensive to be worthwhile on a minimum wage job!

I feel your pain OP, my little one does ASC twice a week and on each of those days every week I feel awful - we are lucky we have family that can help on 2 of the other days, but she's still not home with us, and one day a week when my partner is able to collect her. The guilty feeling is horrible but you aren't failing as a parent and some of the judgemental comments on this thread are just unhelpful. Until very recently I worked part time but a £700 a month hike on the mortgage, plus every other bill imaginable rising, royally fucked that up

Op if it is the "norm" does that make it better?
In the US new mums are expected to sit on special cushions to assist them back to work in a very short space of time after delivery and pump milk at their desks.

I would never go with norms like that, you need to look at your priorities and needs right now and what you want to do whilst thinking about what's best for them and if possible look at a compromise.

I imagine those who need full time wraparound care are simply less likely to go with a school that doesn't offer it full time, I know that I wouldn't. Though there's also childminders, nursery wraparound care for school age children etc so just because it isn't available for every child at the primary school wraparound, it doesn't necessarily mean that no one else uses it, it will just be elsewhere.

Home by 5pm really isn’t that bad - lots of nurseries in London open til 6.30. House prices are so high and commute so long there’s often no other option.

Please don't feel guilty about doing what you have to do and doing your best for your children, which I'm sure you are. I've spent ages feeling guilt for working full time, my DS is 11, knows no difference and is a happy sociable child. I'd recommend looking up Anna Mathur (both books and podcasts) who is a psychotherapist who does a lot of mum guilt. I have no reason to suggest her other than I have found her podcasts really useful for feeling better as a mum, doing my best.

I don't know anyone whose child is in wraparound care morning and evening 5 days a week - it's actually not normal at all. Given there are 175 kids in the primary school and 26 places in the wraparound care, which only operates Mon to Thurs anyway, clearly it's not "normal". People tend to use it for a couple of days a week and juggle working hours and grandparents. We are in a relatively average mixed area. It's the middle class, better off parents here who mainly work long hours and use wraparound care. It's too expensive to be worthwhile on a minimum wage job!

Depends where you life and your school surely.....
Ours has far more than 26 places and as it's such a small school most people get a place if they need it.
It's also quite cheap so it's accessible to all.

I feel the same.

I think it's becoming increasingly normal.

I don't think you should feel guilty for having to work, but equally if there was a way to reduce the amount of time spent in childcare, I would do it.

I was in full-time childcare from a baby - yes, it was normal and I coped just fine but honestly, it wasn't ideal for anyone.

My kids are 3 and 5 as well, and in exactly the same wraparound care boat. It's actually shorter hours than they did when they were at nursery. I just try to make up for it by spending loads of quality time with them on weekends and am with them all through the school holidays rather than using the holiday clubs that lots of parents have to use.

Well yes but places aren't available for most children. it's still the case that only a minority do wraparound care 5 days a week both mornings and evenings. Saying it's normal is like saying it's normal to earn 100k.

In richer areas there will no doubt be more demand for wraparound care, yes. The point I am trying to make it that it is not normal for parents who are genuinely struggling to make ends meet to be using wraparound care 5 days a week.

It tends to be used mainly by better off parents and even then most don't use it 5 days a week.

Ours costs £6.75 for an hour - definitely not cheap or accessible to all!

If the demand is there, it will be available for those who need it. I imagine that demand will largely vary by area.

Plenty of people have said it's normal on this thread, clearly it is hardly unusual.

Your children are spending the majority of their lives with strangers. You get them dressed and put them to bed, but their "life" is with other people who you don't know

I think this is the reality, but you know that.
Your kids, of course, will cope and get used to it. And yes i think it has become a lot more of the norm for kids. There are some who like it and some who hate it and cry after 2 years of going.

But the only thing that matter really is, do you think you are failing them. You say this isn't what you envisaged parenting to be, what did you envisage it to be ?

Are you happy with the set up ?

Everyones circumstances are different and every child is different, so no one can tell you if you are right or wrong, they give an opinion based on their lives, or what they percieve yours may look like. But without knowing the ins and outs - its just sweeping statements and opinion.

It's a balancing act of what's important to you and what's essential.

What would you have to give up to spend more time with the dc? It's a balancing act and takes some thought to get right.

I'm sure you're well aware that some people bring up their kids in rented accommodation with support from the government and few luxuries. Anyone can do it but it is not a lifestyle many would choose unless they valued maximising time with their dc above all else.

If you don't like the way things are what can you do? We both went part time, staggered start and end times so dc never needed childcare. It meant a smaller home, minimal holidays and no luxuries. It also meant slower career progression and a smaller pension. We were fine with that and could still lead what we considered a comfortable life, that may not be the case for some though.

@tiggergoesbounce it's not true though, is it? It's the horrible sneer that those of you who for some reason don't like working mums like to throw out to make us feel bad. So stop it.

Every day, a working mum gets her children up and does breakfast with them. Every day, she picks them up, baths them, gives them dinner, does homework and reading with them and then the bedtime routine. Every day, she gets up if they need her in the night. Every weekend, she's with them.

And of course the same applies to dads. Children of two working parents still spend the majority of their time with their parents.

Then there's the fact that the children aren't with 'people the parents don't know'. They're with other adults with whom they have a relationship outside of the home - how is that different from 'it takes a village'?

So stop it with the sneering and the misrepresentation. It's not OK.

it's not true though, is it?

@pointythings What isnt true ???

It's the horrible sneer that those of you who for some reason don't like working mums like to throw out to make us feel bad. So stop it
I think you must have @"ed" the wrong person. I absolutely dont "sneer", "dislike" or "make you feel bad" thats just ridiculous.

Every day, a working mum gets her children up and does breakfast with them. Every day, she picks them up, baths them, gives them dinner, does homework and reading with them and then the bedtime routine. Every day, she gets up if they need her in the night. Every weekend, she's with them

Well thats not always true. You seem to be grouping all working mums together and saying that those are all things that matter. What if a working mum can't do some of those things in your eyes does that make them less of a mum. My friend cant do breakfast or the school run, either side as shes out the door at 6am and not in until 7pm - it doesn't make her any less of a mum, it does mean she spends less time with her children though - thats just a fact.

And of course the same applies to dads

Yes it does.

Children of two working parents still spend the majority of their time with their parents

That depends on the jobs and the hours, so again a very sweeping statement - grouping working parents all the same, they are not circumstances for each individual are very different- as i say in my post.

Then there's the fact that the children aren't with 'people the parents don't know'.
They're with other adults with whom they have a relationship outside of the home - how is that different from 'it takes a village'

They are with people the parents have to trust, just the same as school.

So stop it with the sneering and the misrepresentation. It's not OK

I am not sneering, show me where i do. I say its a personal choice, a balancing act. I do not sneer at anyone !!!!.

@pointpointythings

Why are people trying to make women feel bad when they are trying to do their best? Why do people love to do that to mums?? I was able to be a SAHM when the dcs were younger and I had years of crappy comments about my choices, from men and women. I have no idea if it was the right choice but it was the choice my husband and I made and was nobody's else's business.

Ours costs £6.75 for an hour - definitely not cheap or accessible to all!

Ours is less than that for a whole session (two and a half hours) so it is accessible and in my area is used by a whole range of families, not just those that are wealthy.

@tiggergoesbounce you are agreeing with this statement:

Your children are spending the majority of their lives with strangers. You get them dressed and put them to bed, but their "life" is with other people who you don't know

It's the one that gets thrown at working mums everywhere. The 'you aren't raising your own children', the 'you're farming them out to strangers'. And it's nonsense because as a parent, you still spend the majority of every single day with your children. That is what I object to - the fact that you are agreeing with the poster who posted the same old sneer. And a sneer is exactly what it is; an implication that as a working mum, you're doing it for the 'luxuries', and that if you only cut your cloth, made sacrifices, you'd be able to be a SAHM. That is what needs to stop because it is NOT TRUE.

And of course there are some working parents out there who can't do breakfast or homework - people who work shifts are an obvious example. But you are supporting the contention that they are lesser parents because they do not stay at home. That is what has to stop. If you have a more nuanced view then don't support or agree with people who judge working mothers - because the reality is a lot more nuanced than 'you aren't there for them'.