9 year old lying finally told truth

[IWantOut29]

I've rewrote this a few times now and now I'm crying because despite the fact shes now telling the truth about lying i'm worried strangers on the internet are going to think I'm lying 🤦‍♀️ I dont even know what I want from posting this, I've barely spoke to anyone aside from family about all of this because I've been so ashamed and paranoid people would think it was true. Now shes finally told the truth I still feel anxious and worried

Sorry, this is going to be long but basically my DD9 has been accusing me of hurting her for the last 18 months. The accusations have gotten bigger and bigger. She is suspected Autism/ADHD and is on the neuro referal pathway. She hurts herself at school frequently, vomits most days and has threatened to kill herself more times than I can count at school

We are on a child protection plan because although it has never been proven nor has she ever had any Mark's, because she has been consistent in her stories they said she was at risk of harm.

We were put on the plan during the 6 weeks holidays and I was really upset as school would of been able to prove that one accusation was 100% not true, but they couldnt ask they didnt attend the meeting as it was in the 6 weeks holidays. She said that I beat her up on holiday and slammed her head against the walls.... I did not go on holiday with her and she stayed in a teepee/tent kind of thing

I asked why when there was no proof or injuries or Mark's and they said because she had been consistent with what she had been saying she was at risk of harm.

Our social worker has been absolutely amazing and I have a good relationship with her. My DD recently had 8 weeks off school as she accused a teacher of hurting her too and there was a big investiagtion. During this time she was seen regularly by a counsellor and her social worker, plus she goes to the local community club and has days out with them.

She has recently gone back to school on a phased return and on the 2nd day I went to pick her up at the agreed time and could hear her crying in the safeguarding teachers room. I couldnt hear what she was saying, just heard her getting really upset saying she wanted to go home and the teacher saying she couldnt go home if what she was saying was true

This time, she had a meeting with an advocacy person about the allegation with the teacher and told her that I hadnt let her see anyone during the time she was off school, I didnt let her speak to her social worker alone, she doesnt have a quilt at home and that I beat her up on her birthday and punched her in the face..... I have loads of pictures/videos of her birthday and we were out all day with family too,

So I sent the social worker pictures/videos of days before/after and during her birthday, she could prove that she had seen DD alone and that DD has been to counselling sessions alone and that she has been to the clubs and days out alone.

The police said they were not going to investigate any further and were happy to leave it with social services but they did want to go round to the house to check DD had quilt and a pillow ect.

She spoke to the police and our social worker and told them all that it wasnt true, she thought because she was still having meetings about it that they wanted her to say she was being hurt, she didnt want them to call her a liar, she doesnt like the meetings because they always go silent and just look at her. She didnt want safeguarding teacher in the meeting with her and told our social worker it was because she didnt want the teacher to know she was lying

Me, school, social and the police have all said she wouldnt get in trouble for lying, we are all here to keep her safe and the police said to me after that hopefully seeing the police in person might show her that there are real consequences to her words. They also told me that she said to the social worker " I hold all the dominance now" and when asked what she meant she said "in the house, I hold all the power now" which the police said shows that she knows she has power behind her words

Unfortunatly they still havnt had the strategory meeting, it was supposed to be on the Wednesday, then the Thursday then the Friday but each day got moved again as someone or other couldnt attend. Soni assume it will be Monday now and I'm so anxious about it

I asked the police what would happen now as I was worried I was going to get arrested and they said I wouldnt be arrested, they wouldnt be investigating further and were leaving it with social. I am a very anxious person and said to them are you sure because I'm worried theres going to be an ambush and they said they had to tell me beforehand what they were going to say in the meeting and that they wernt going to do anything

My social worker has been brilliant all the way through this, has said how well we get on what a good bond we have, how happy and relaxed she is around me, has said it seems to be a school issue as it's only in school she says these things and that it was weird that she hadnt said any of these things to her, her counsellor or anyone else and said it to a complete stranger she had never met before.

I'm so relieved shes told the truth but I just feel so sad and empty about it. It's been such a stressful awful time, I've lost so much weight through the stress of it all, I havnt slept properly for months.

I feel horrible for her that its recorded down that she has told lies. With the police aswell shes 9 years old. What if somthing happens to her when shes older and she isnt believed because she told fibs when she was little?

I've felt horrible all the way throughout all of this. With the police the other day she looked so uncomfortable and I wanted to stroke her arm and give her a cuddle for reassurance but I didnt want the police to think I was trying to silence her. She kept looking at me for reassurance when they were asking her questions and I had to ask her not to look at me as I was worried the police would take that as she was scared to speak infront of me. I said all of this infront of the police and they said no not at all, sit with her it's fine.

I dont know why I'm so upset about it, shes told the truth now, social have always been really supportive all the way through this, I dont have to do anything on this plan it has all been arou f support for me DD, they havnt asked me to do a single thing

I cant stop crying tonight I dont even know what I. Hoping to gain from posting this, I just need to get it out of me

If you got to the end thank you for reading,

This is very outing so I may well ask mumsnet to remove it at some point,

This 100%

she sounds very dangerous and whilst I feel really sorry for you OP and you do sound lovely… you need to toughen up with her and deal with this as her parent not her friend!

Hugs. All I would say is be very careful with your own wording when trying to rationalize with her after the event. Telling her that you could be arrested and your little boy could end up with no mummy is an incredibly large burden to be placing on an already deeply troubled 9 year old mind.

This is incredibly serious and you must prioritise a diagnosis, before it gets worse (and, without intervention, it WILL get worse). Given you have social services involvement, get them to absolutely harangue health services to seriously speed up the assessment. Your daughter needs skilled intervention, and you need proper support (and not the type of 'support' you're getting at the moment, whereby you feel the need to just take this relentless/damaging onslaught on the chin).

Neither you nor your son's emotional wellbeing are incidental in this. You both have as much right to a worry free life as your daughter. Her behaviour would have broken me, so kudos to you on your resilience!

You sound like an amazing Mum. Raising children alone is not easy, and raising two children, one with suspected Autism and another with ADHD and Dyspraxia on your own must be so challenging.
Hats off to you. 💐
Your dd is so in need of specialist help. Hurting her brother physically is not on.
You say you are on your own because of domestic violence. What did she witness ?
Is her acting up because of trauma ?

I hate the way neurodiversity is always trotted out as some kind of theory/excuse on this site. I'm neurodivergent myself.

We don't actually know if this child is or isn't, she hasn't been assessed.

But it is possible for someone to be neurodivergent and also an attention seeker, a liar, a not very nice person. It's insulting to those of us with these conditions to always attribute these behaviours to neurodiversity.

Regardless of what is causing this, she could have ruined OP's life, and that of OP's son.

We all have to live in society- I myself feel the burden of trying to fit into a world where I don't feel I quite fit. But we cannot go around hurting other people in this way. It's simply insulting to say neurodivergent people do not understand emotions or the impact of their actions. We are not all the same. This child is being given far too much benefit of the doubt. Neurodivergent or not - she needs to learn, and fast.

Well of course. That won't make her grow up into a messed up adult with insecurities and riddled with anxiety afterall.

So you think children should behave like this and not be made to understand the severity of the impact of their behaviour? That's a way to create an adult who thinks the world revolves around them and they can hurt people with no consequences.

I am advocating for nothing but the truth. The potential consequences were dire.

I think the OP has heard enough of the armchair psychology.
What the OP needs is support, and encouragement to fight for herself and her son in this.
Her daughter's behaviour is of the gravity whereupon sticker charts and passive assurance will do diddly. Her daughter needs skilled intervention, and quickly.

I had a sibling like this too. You need to punish her for lying, otherwise she'll think there's no consequences. Then she'll think twice about lying again.

@Sapphire387 completely agree. I remember when my step son told horrific lies to social workers and the psychologists said we must not punish the child for telling lies and we should be understanding. If this is what professionals are making people believe then what hope do kids have? They are making parents too afraid to actually parent. Back when I was younger, my life literally wouldn't have been worth living if I had told such lies. I would have been very seriously disciplined.

Really astute post @AriannasGuitarCase.

And this bit is particularly bang on:

"As usual on MN, there's lots of comments from PP who ignore the Autism and give advice based on NT kids. That's why I think finding a Child Pyschologist who is trained in ND is important and could really help your dd work through her feelings".

You sound like a really thoughtful, loving, caring mum. It must have been very difficult to go through all of this, very stressful and anxiety causing.

I think the DV must have had an effect on your DD. I am really struck by her comment about her saying 'I've got all the dominance in the house now' and about what you said about how she mistreats her younger DS if she is jealous or annoyed by him, and how he is scared of her. It's all about ways she has found to gain control and power over you both.

It might be worth her spending some time with a Child Psychologist unpicking the effect of the DV on her.

People with autism are not a different species, they are capable of emotion and not more likely to lie. It seems some people on here want to excuse any behaviour. It's not helpful really. It won't help these children cope as adults.

This ^^

Please do not try to shame or punish a 9 year old child over something as emotionally charged as this.

In fact I am not sure that trying to shame anyone is particularly beneficial, but definitely not vulnerable people - which includes children.

Neither you nor your son's emotional wellbeing are incidental in this. You both have as much right to a worry free life as your daughter. Her behaviour would have broken me, so kudos to you on your resilience! this.
Also don't understand the 'don't tell her what could have been the consequences for her behaviour, it'll be upsetting for her'
But it would be the truth?

Your kid needs guidance. You’re clearly full of love but she’ll end up being a horrible person if you continue to allow her to behave like this. Every single time she lies you should sit her down and explain exactly the impact this has on each person. She needs to learn to care about other people.

How exactly is the OP or anyone else for that matter supposed to ensure that her 9 year old beloved, vulnerable daughter is able to, or learns how to distinguish between the two types of "shame" that you recognise?
After all most many adults can't manage that distinction.

Edited because I highlighted to the wrong person!

She doesn't like school because she can't rule the roost like she does at home. Whenever she was in trouble at school, she made up these stories to deflect
Saying 'I am the one with dominance' was a clear threat to you.That is basically domestic abuse

I understand your fears, but you need to be brave and really nip this very dangerous attitude in the bud.
I very strongly abvise youvto give her severe consequences to show her that YOU are the one in charge not her.Tell her about the boy who cried wolf, be very clear about the very serious nature of her behaviour
Finally, stop babying her.Get her in her own bed and don't have any truck with her whining about you playing favourites whenever you try and do something nice with your boy.More manipulation!

That sounds so stressful. I would be getting camera's installed in your home, so that you can prove she's not being hit.

You can change your vote! Just tap on the one you want!

I disagree with others saying not to tell her you could go to jail. Yes she may have ND but she needs to be told what can happen in an age appropriate way.

The child made the comment about having dominance, she has some understanding of what she is doing, although not the severity of it. You have reacted by giving her lots of affection, which seems to be what she is after due to jealousy of her brother.

Not only has she spread lies about you but a teacher as well. You say she lies so much about her brother you don't know what's real. You need to take away a tablet/toy/etc every time she lies about her brother.

What actions have the school put I place now? The staff will surely want to protect themselves now she's admitted to lying. What would you have done if the teacher had lost their job/resigned or worse, before discovering your daughter had lied? Obviously you must support your daughter but for all this to continue happening without any form of consequence is only going to encourage her behaviour.

What does your mother say about her lying? You mentioned that your mother said she thought the school shouldn't have investigated it, and yo said you understand the safeguarding procedures, but does your mother understand the severity of the lies? Not just about you but the teacher as well?

I have only skimmed some comments but as far as I can tell no one is supporting shaming or guilt tripping the child, but some form of appropriate consequences need to be enforced from now on. It sounds like the school and social are putting things in place to support her, hopefully some form of therapy will be added.

As an example, if the situation was that your child was bullying another child, what action would you take? Surely you wouldn't be hugging her and telling her it's OK?

I understand this has been from fear of her then telling more lies about you but from an outside point of view, she has managed to gain the power in your relationship.

Also, i would not be giving her EXTRA help because she is jealous of her brother needing more support. If possible i would try separate 1:1 time with each of them.

Also, I'm not trying to criticise or judge you, it's a horrible situation to be in and we all cope differently. Just as an outsider it seems like your daughter has been given positive reinforcement for lying by getting a new fun class and lots of hugs and attention from you

A conversation is needed about the fact she lied, that she hurt people and it wasn’t ok at all, but now the slate is wiped clean. A new beginning.

Don’t focus on the lies but make sure she knows you know she is lying. “Don’t be ridiculous, that isn’t true at all”. Strong boundaries, with consequences related to the crime if possible. Positive reinforcement when possible.

Don’t let her drama get her any attention at all. Focus on the behaviour you want. Don’t let her control you. You allow her to do things on your time scale, if you are happy with it.
Once an asd child realises they can pull all the strings, then things get progressively worse, I’ve seen that at happen work. Behaviour is fine at school where controlling behaviour isn’t tolerated but the parents give in at home until it reaches crisis point. At that point, there is little help available because behaviour is fine at school.
I know school is the issue in your case op. Hopefully the new teacher etc will help. But you do need to be careful about letting her rule the roost at home too. Give her as much agency and control as she wants in some areas, but maintain some hard lines. Decide where those lines are, and be consistent and fair.

You sound as if you give her lots of love. That’s great, but boundaries and consequences are needed too. Push for all the outside help you can and definitely check to see if asd is at play too.

If a child, ND or not, is mature enough to understand that they can do things to retain power and control at home and in school then they are mature enough to understand the potential consequences of their actions.
You, your DS, teachers and other pupils should not be walking on eggshells and pandering to this

Id be inclined to find a counsellor that’s got experience of children who have witnessed DV, because a lot of these tactics are common in an abusive relationship and it looks like she has learned that you can manipulate, lie and bully people into doing what you want them to do.

She needs a diagnosis prior to going to secondary. If this carries on once she's a teenager it will be much harder to manage. I would prioritise nagging the social worker about getting her diagnosis speeded up, and put pressure where you can to achieve this (or even think about private diagnosis).

The diagnosis itself might not explain everything and of course most people with ASD/ADHD don't all lie, but her impulsivity and black and white thinking may well be connected in with her neurodiversity, it may also be a maturity issue (one of mine lied up til about this age).

OP- hugging and kissing are easy parts of loving a child .Setting and maintaining hard boundaries and consistent consequences are just as much part of loving a child