To think there shouldn't be measles outbreaks?

[fatandhappy47]

Surely we shouldn't be having an issue with measles?
Had an email from school (secondary) 'reminding' us to keep kids off with measles, which got me thinking

All my kids band my friends kids of the same age had their MMR (however my youngest did get measles before this)

So why is it an issue in secondary schools of all places? Are people just not vaccinating their kids?

Prevalence of autistic trait is static since the 1970s, we are just more aware of those on the less severe end of the spectrum than we used to be.

Listening to a couple of people who are wrong isn't a 'good reason' not to vaccinate. I trust you've apologised to your kids and told them to get vaccinated as adults?

I assume you didn’t mean to just tag me in this? My 5 year old is fully vaccinated

I think those unvaccinated children bring a lot of risk to their daily environment : daycare or school.

These sorts of statements don't help the people who are not sure about whether to vaccinate their children or not. The risk is to the child itself. If they don't catch the disease in question they are not going to pass it on.

I have also just been catching up on this thread and have read about a vaccinated child getting measles from another vaccinated child. So it happens.

He was struck off because his paper was fraudulent. Do you think researchers should be allowed to go round making stuff up because they have a financial conflict of interest?

There does seem to be a correlation between the decline in vaccination and the Langsley reforms which came into force in 2013. Thereafter there is a steady decline. The langsley reforms moved public health functions out of the NHS and into local authorities. Meanwhile vaccine provision stayed with the NHS but as a centralised function. Its nationally not locally commissioned.

There are different reasons for low uptake in different areas. Hesitancy can be linked to cultural issues and are most prevalent amongst 1st generation migrants. The porcine issue is linked to Muslim and Jewish communities. Vaccine scepticism is high in black Afro Caribbean communities because of the historic abuses of vaccines in these communities. White British hesitancy is linked to the anti vax movement inspired by Wakefield. There are issues within Eastern European populations as well that are linked to anti vax sentiment.

There is plenty of evidence that mandates don’t improve uptake. A lot of hesitancy can be addressed by intervention from a qualified HCP or peer groups. Religious leaders are very supportive of interventions within their communities.

Pro vaxers could help by not being so judgemental and antagonistic. You won’t get anywhere with a determined anti vaxer. Never give them oxygen or feed their sense of persecution and victimhood.

We need to spend more on improving vaccine uptake and link it to local problems. Re-establishing the links with public health leaders and the NHS providers is needed.

The “on the rise” thing with measles has been reported many many times before. It never gets out of control.

Thanks LemonTT - one of the most sensible posts I have seen on this thread.

Local authorities have had their funding cut to the bone by Central Government, so the priority has to be given to the provision of statutory services.
The reasons why people don't vaccinate is like a jigsaw and this is just one piece.

That's exactly what people like that believe.

However, I always find it interesting that whenever someone like that requires medical intervention of their own, their beliefs go right out the window and a team of plough horses couldn't keep them from jumping into bed with 'big pharma' for treatment.

Seriously, that is not even a good reason. You need to read the epidemical and longitudinal research on this. The reason why it looks like there’s an association is because rates of ASD, but also our ability to identify it, properly assess and understand it were raising at the same time. Therefore it looks like as the MMR is introduced rates of autism are rising but this is not linked at all. Please remember that correlation does not indicate causation. It is the very basics of scientific understanding and research. Regardless, I don’t even know if there was a definite clinical or statistically relevant correlation. The two things are not causal.

And those are utterly ridiculous and stupid reasons that you quote, and you’re putting other children and families at risk with your nonsense. A few individual stories does not indicate evidence. Vaccines do not cause autism. Lack of vaccines cause serious life changing disease and put other children at risk. Get a grip - utter nonsense 🙄

Andrew Wakefield had financial incentives to do what he did.

https://www.minnpost.com/second-opinion/2011/01/doctor-had-strong-financial-motives-launching-mmr-autism-scare-investigative/

https://www.nature.com/articles/nm0310-248b

The GMC have confirmed that Andrew Wakefield was incorrect.

no sorry it was to @dottty123 , replied to your reply to her!

@dottty123 Wakefield went to a community in Minnesota when they had all vaccinated - after hearing him, they stopped doing him, big measles outbreaks, seriously ill kids.

you think that's a good thing?

@dottty123

Andrew Wakefield was struck off for FRAUD.
If anyone or organisation was so sure in his findings, they could've just replicated his study anywhere in the world to 'prove' his findings - no person or body has chosen to do this.

I worry in your critical thinking ability. I worry in particular for your DC.
To put it bluntly, you are part of this problem. The vast majority of people don't have any reactions to vaccines.

@dottty123 that's such nonsense. There have always been autistic people - they just went undiagnosed. They went through life struggling instead.

I look back through my dads side of the family and I see my dad, and countless people in his generation and the one above who couldn't cope with life, didn't get married / lived with their older sister who took care of them and wasn't able to take phone calls or answer the door.

It is not a small issue.

I meant in terms of numbers - for most of my patients who won't vaccinate, this isn't the issue.

It's potentially a problem because of geographical concentration. 1% of the population declining vaccination is survivable if it's evenly spread, but a real problem if they're all in one borough. AFAIK it's not even evenly spread across the UK Muslim population, it's a concern specific to certain smaller communities.

Are you in Birmingham/Tower Hamlets?

as i say… read more about the foundation

theres an outbreak at the moment. It’s in the news.

I am interested and would like to read more about this but after a quick Google I can find at least four major foundations funding Mount Sinai and I have other things I need to do today - so could you tell me which one, please?

My son had croup when he was four. The doctor said that it used to be far more common as it came alongside diphtheria. Now that people are immunised against diphtheria, it’s rarer (it was treated with a one day course of steroids).

And the 70s. I remember having mumps as a child, being totally miserable, only able to swallow ice cream and being tucked up in my Nans bed while my uncle (only a few years older) was packed away to a friends for a week in case he got it. Its not just the throat that swells up and the fear that he would get it was very, very real

I can only speak for myself. I had my son fully vaccinated as a baby. I listened to my health visitor, read the paperwork and opted to have my son immunised against everything that was advised.

On the other hand, I became quite depressed during the pandemic. Lost trust in the Covid jab, particularly when truckers started to have bank accounts frozen and when the NHS started threatening to sack people. Seeing big pharma make huge profits and seeing anyone who questioned the narrative silenced. I had already had my two AZ but refused any boosters despite the numerous text messages. I refused to vaccinate my children against Covid.

Now I’ve sworn that I will not have any ‘new’ vaccine going forward. So if we have another pandemic, I’ll be refusing. I can honestly see how people have lost trust and are grouping tried and tested vaccines that have been around for years, with the vaccine that damaged so much trust.

Of course I’d choose MMR vaccination again, but I could have guessed that this would happen, in fact a lot of those people who were being silenced on social media did.

Just my viewpoint of course.