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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Retired parents UPSIZING house

1000 replies

toastlover100 · 19/01/2024 19:07

I’m pretty sure IABU.

My parter and I are late 20s, renting, good careers but still waiting for salaries to increase much.

We are engaged and trying to save for a very small wedding, we know we could just go the registry office but that’s not what we want.

We are also trying to save a house deposit, but it’ll take a long time on current earnings. Hoping to maybe get there by mid thirties.

We would love to have children in the next couple of years but the likelihood is we will still be in our rented flat.

My parents are retired from reasonable jobs but never high earning at all. Through some luck, paying off their mortgage, house price rises, they are about to buy a house worth around a million. This is a huge upsizing.

AIBU to begrudge them this?
We are struggling to make any headway financially, spending thousands a year on rent, wanting a family but not being in the right position etc, whilst my parents are about to spend a huge amount of savings I didn’t know they had to upsize to a large family home they really don’t need.

OP posts:
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usernother · 20/01/2024 08:42

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

When do you assume people over 60 have too much time on their hands? Many are still working, and/or providing free child care.

IheartNiles · 20/01/2024 08:43

Some very tone deaf older adults and sympathisers on this thread.
We’re in our 50s, didn’t inherit, our parents were council housed. But we now own (albeit mortgaged until 60+) a big house. By the time I bought my first home in my late 20s house prices to wages had become a lot harder and I got onto the property ladder by the skin of my teeth on an NHS wage. Nowadays my younger colleagues can’t even buy a studio flat on their wages, even if they spend nothing on fripperies.

The elderly are a dominant segment who vote for governments who represent their wishes. They disproportionately take benefits (health and care spending, pensions).

I’d like to think some of us recognise our privilege. There is no way I’d live in a pile and watch our DC struggle, WTF?? We also intend to go to Dignitas if the time comes and we have written and witnessed wishes about not receiving any life prolonging treatment if we lose capacity.

Us older people sticking their head in the sand about disproportionate generational wealth are idiots. I don’t know many young people who can afford to work in the care sector or nursing and it’ll be interesting to see who is going to be expected to meet the physical care needs of this growing population of elderly people. I suspect many are going to need to part with the piles of wealth they sit smugly upon.

C8H10N4O2 · 20/01/2024 08:50

CurlyWurly1991 · 20/01/2024 08:11

Just want to point out that the reason standard of living has decreased so much since the boomers generation is not just down to Tory politics. Being able to afford a house or not is the tip of the iceberg I’m afraid. Those under 35-40 will no longer be able to expect to retire. Climate change is going to destroy the stability that we’ve enjoyed in the west. The party is coming to an end, humans have been greedy and ravaged the planet and the result of that is now here to stay. I guess our parents generation are the last that have been able to enjoy living between major wars and conflicts in the U.K., had good economic prospects, and immense freedoms. No one has ever had it so good, and won’t again! It stings because we can see what they had, but just compare to any other point in history and it’s clear it would never last.

Edited

Its also nothing like as rosy as presented. Most people born into the boomer and early gen X generation couldn't have dreamed of the standard of living enjoyed by most millennial children. I'm on the boundary of the generations and grew up in overcrowded housing without a heating system or bathroom in my early years. I spent a sizeable part of my childhood at Brompton hospital along with half my infant school class of 54 kids living in the same conditions.

This was commonplace, especially for working class families, even with both parents working. For millennial children those conditions would be much less common (although shamefully not non existent), class sizes were half and the educational opportunities to progress were huge by comparison, particularly for women. Only two of those 54 children went to university despite many bright working class children. They were denied the opportunity by a whole mix of reasons.

My children had a vastly better standard of living throughout their childhood than I did or my late DH. That made it much easier for them to access good higher education and become financially independent in their 20s and get onto the housing ladder independently. All four have done this, three in the SE and one abroad. If I look back at their class of 26 at state infant school, mixed area, about 20 of them went on university, most were on the housing ladder in at least a modest way by their late 20s.

The tired old rhetoric of "greedy old people" and "young victims" has no more truth to it than most of the other tired sound bytes of identity politics. The picture is far more nuanced than that.

ssd · 20/01/2024 08:53

What ages are your children @C8H10N4O2 ?

C8H10N4O2 · 20/01/2024 08:55

ssd · 20/01/2024 08:53

What ages are your children @C8H10N4O2 ?

Clustered around the OP's claimed age.

Bululu · 20/01/2024 09:14

@toastlover100 you called off your engagement previously. Are you sure your parents are not just fed up and staying out of all of this?

GotMooMilk · 20/01/2024 09:15

I don’t begrudge all the many people who have worked hard, benefitted from the house prices souring/cheaper housing compared to wages. I don’t blame people for retiring early on excellent pensions when they’ve slogged their guts out for these. I don’t blame people not wanting to downsize and to stay in their sizeable homes to entertain, host family and enjoy.

I think really what younger people appreciate, as many posters have acknowledged!, that the current generation are unlikely to get this ‘happy ending’. We are unlikely to enjoy long well funded retirements, we are more likely to be stuck renting or in smaller homes. We can slog out guts out and make the same sacrifices but we won’t get the same reward. I don’t expect parents to pay me for me instead but if they can lend money without really affecting their quality of life I don’t know why you wouldn’t- I like to think I would. And even if you don’t want to share your wealth which you’re entitled to it would be nice to simply acknowledge your luck if things have turned out well and accept your kids lives will be very different and they’re allowed to feel how they feel about that.

HamBone · 20/01/2024 09:21

I suspect many are going to need to part with the piles of wealth they sit smugly upon.

@IheartNiles Ive wondered whether that’s a reason why my in-laws have never given any gifts to their children-they’ve given loans, at 8% interest when my DH had one for uni.
I think they’re trying to avoid asking any of their children to care/help them as they age (they’re in their 80’s now). So there’s a logic perhaps. I’m not sure that I’d do the same though.

VickyEadieofThigh · 20/01/2024 09:25

Shinyandnew1 · 20/01/2024 08:36

Oh! Are you married already, @toastlover100 ?

Sounds like the OP has been a bit economical with the truth.

IheartNiles · 20/01/2024 09:25

HamBone · 20/01/2024 09:21

I suspect many are going to need to part with the piles of wealth they sit smugly upon.

@IheartNiles Ive wondered whether that’s a reason why my in-laws have never given any gifts to their children-they’ve given loans, at 8% interest when my DH had one for uni.
I think they’re trying to avoid asking any of their children to care/help them as they age (they’re in their 80’s now). So there’s a logic perhaps. I’m not sure that I’d do the same though.

8% interest!
Blimey, profiting from your children’s desperation- that’s a new low.

StopTheQtipWhenTheresResistance · 20/01/2024 09:35

Princessfluffy · 20/01/2024 05:44

Have you asked them directly for financial help OP? I would definitely do that.

I am unimpressed by parents who watch their dc struggle financially when they are in a position to make things easier.

Obviously your parents are free to make their own choices but to me they seem selfish and self absorbed.

You may not be entitled to receive financial help from your parents but you absolutely are entitled to ask them for it.

Don't you think it's selfish and self absorbed to expect our parents to fund our lifestyle into adulthood?

BeadedBubbles · 20/01/2024 09:41

*The OP hasn't asked for help, so the parents haven't had an opportunity to demonstrate any level of selfishness. They're not mind readers.

@echt*

Surely you don't need to be a mind reader? As a parent of young adults I think I'm reasonably tuned into their personal circumstances - roughly what their income is, what local rents/property prices are, what aspirations they might have, It's not rocket science to recognise points in their lives when they might appreciate the offer of some help. I don't wait for them to ask.

rainingsnoring · 20/01/2024 09:44

Moveoverdarlin · 19/01/2024 23:19

Think how fortunate your future children will be going to their grandparents million pound big house. My children love my parents house and it’s like the head quarters of our family - Christmas, Easter Egg Hunts, BBQ’s. See the bigger picture. One day it might be worth 1.5 million and you’ll be the beneficiary.

And wouldn't it be even nicer for children if their parents owned a nice, large house so that they could enjoy it every day and have Easter egg hunts and BBQs and Christmas there, with grandparents visiting. This is the point, the inter generational disparity, where one or two grandparents live in the large houses and the parents and a couple of children are squeezed into a terrace. This isn't a good thing for society.
Additionally, I hate this talk of inheritance from multiple posters. That is entitlement, imo, In any case, @toastlover100 and others whose parents own large houses may inherit nothing. It may all go on care fees or the values may reduce. Even if they do inherit, it will probably be around 60 years of age, when they don't need it anyway, their children, (if they could afford any), long having left home.

EveryonesSlaveApparently · 20/01/2024 09:48

rainingsnoring · 20/01/2024 09:44

And wouldn't it be even nicer for children if their parents owned a nice, large house so that they could enjoy it every day and have Easter egg hunts and BBQs and Christmas there, with grandparents visiting. This is the point, the inter generational disparity, where one or two grandparents live in the large houses and the parents and a couple of children are squeezed into a terrace. This isn't a good thing for society.
Additionally, I hate this talk of inheritance from multiple posters. That is entitlement, imo, In any case, @toastlover100 and others whose parents own large houses may inherit nothing. It may all go on care fees or the values may reduce. Even if they do inherit, it will probably be around 60 years of age, when they don't need it anyway, their children, (if they could afford any), long having left home.

Do you really think all 60 year olds are at a stage in life where they don't need any money coming their way? I think you'll find otherwise as you get older. I'm nowhere near 60 but can see how, at that age, you start to think that you need a bit behind you for a secure old age. Not everyone has had the chance to build that at that age. Many still have mortgages.

Utterbunkum · 20/01/2024 09:50

There's a huge tendency, especially on MN where so many people seem to come from wealthier backgrounds, to be unaware of living standards in previous generations. 'Oh, you could buy a house for 2k'...well, maybe, but many actually LIVED in the sort of conditions most would be horrified by now.

My father was brought up in a tiny end of terrace, single-glazed, no central heating like the majority of houses. Outside toilet. Holidays' were day trips to Blackpool occasionally. But hey, they owned their house. Whoopty-do.

My stepfather grew up in a deprived area of Scotland. The street shared a toilet (and yes, that was a thing, I checked). I don't know what their rent was, obviously very low in comparison, but who lives like that now?
My mother grew up in a tenant farmhouse, again no central heating, single glazing, no modern insulation, but they had the luxury of an indoor toilet.

I was born in the early 70s. Still no double glazing, but at least central heating was becoming more common. You still got ice on the inside of the windows in a cold winter. Most of the appliances we all take for granted now were more basic and not altogether safe. Only rich people owned a TV outright, the rest of us rented, and they had a tendency to overheat. For this reason, 70s TVs had the nickname, 'curtain-burners'. That decade saw electricity rationing for businesses, resulting in the 3 day week at the beginning of 1974. Most of that decade was overshadowed by strikes and industry closure.

By the 80s, following the loss of much industry, not just the pit closures, swathes of the country were in poverty. Unemployment in the early 80s was high.

The 80s is now thought of as a time of excess and success, but the reality wasn't quite as it appeared. As others have pointed out, it was the boom and bust era. High interest rates, fluctuating prices. Some were, yes, 'lucky'. Others weren't. Still, the standard of general living was improving. Most people by now, even in the poorer areas, had indoor plumbing and central heating was more common. But a lot of people lived on credit, had been offered mortgages by the bank that were beyond their means and we're finding out that Thatcher's home-ownership ambition for the nation wasn't all it was cracked up to be.

In the 90s, my DH and I bought our first home and, yes, we were lucky. We bought in a window of a stable market, but, as someone else mentioned, endowments were being pushed heavily. We were lucky, ours just made it, and we only had a part endowment, but I remember work colleagues who bought in the early 90s in floods of tears because they reached the point where their mortgage should have been paid off and they still owed the money.

Today, the housing market is hard, yes. Very hard. But in comparison to my 'boomer' parents who apparently had it all handed to them on a plate, living standards are far higher. Very few of us would accept living the way a lot of boomers from average/low income houses grew up and started their own families in. And part of the reason for that is due to the battles fought and hours worked decades ago, at a time when there was much less flexibility in the workplace, the pay gap between women and men was much wider, you could still openly be denied a job because you were female, and nobody gave a shit about your personal circumstances/mental health at work.

My mother had to lie and say she was sick if she had to stay home to look after me.

So yeah, my parents can have an easy life because, frankly, it WAS harder for them in a multitude of ways most young people frankly don't understand. My parents don't have a million pound house, they have a modest bungalow in the North East, but if they did have a big house, etc, I wouldn't begrudge them because I know what they really lived through to get there.
From their perspective, they gave us a better life than they had. And I agree with them.

TraitorRoundTable · 20/01/2024 09:51

toastlover100 · 19/01/2024 23:17

I know this is the internet but I cannot believe the vitriol.

I am upset about society wide generational wealth disparity, the state of the housing situation and how hard it is for young people. Many of whom have it a hundred times worse than me.

I simply hope that if I have children who could do with financial support in adulthood, that I would help if I was in a position to do so.

But they’re not in a position to help you, because they too want to progress on the housing ladder 🤷‍♀️

GettingStuffed · 20/01/2024 09:52

We're just about to do the same. We either need an extra bedroom or an extra room that can be used as a temporary bedroom. Why ? Simple my children now have children and so we need more room when they visit.

Harrietsaunt · 20/01/2024 09:56

I’m a bit torn on this @toastlover100

My DC are young adults. If I had plenty of free cash I would definitely give them money for a house deposit ahead of upsizing my own home.

What would put me right off in your case is that you would prioritise a £5k wedding over a house.

No way would I be contributing to that complete waste of money. Just my view, but my money.

BigFatCat2024 · 20/01/2024 09:58

WildFlowerBees · 19/01/2024 21:02

I didn't realise it was a parents job to fund a house of their independent adult children. My parents along with 99% of other parents must have missed that memo. I'm guessing yours worked for many years, saved and looked forward to a time when they could have the house they always wanted when they could afford it which happens to be now. Give your head a wobble you aren't coming across very well.

Mine missed it too, it meant we couldn't get on the property ladder until mid 30s but it didn't even occur to me that I should have been raging that they spent their own money on their own lives and didn't give me a 'little helping hand of £100k or so' (ffs, the entitlement in that quote! As if £100k is in anyway 'little')

rainingsnoring · 20/01/2024 09:59

EveryonesSlaveApparently · 20/01/2024 09:48

Do you really think all 60 year olds are at a stage in life where they don't need any money coming their way? I think you'll find otherwise as you get older. I'm nowhere near 60 but can see how, at that age, you start to think that you need a bit behind you for a secure old age. Not everyone has had the chance to build that at that age. Many still have mortgages.

Obviously some money would be welcome for many and some, particularly those being 'forced' recently to take on 35/40 yr mortgage terms now because of unaffordable house prices. My point is that money or the ability to afford a comfortable, secure, family home would be far more useful in around your late 20s/30s/40s when most people tend to have families and high expenses of mortgage combined with childcare and all the other costs of raising a family.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 20/01/2024 10:01

There's a huge tendency, especially on MN where so many people seem to come from wealthier backgrounds, to be unaware of living standards in previous generations. 'Oh, you could buy a house for 2k'...well, maybe, but many actually LIVED in the sort of conditions most would be horrified by now.

Exactly. My grandparents never owned their own home and they used to take in lodgers to pay the rent. My parents only paid off the mortgage shortly before retirement. I didn't buy until relatively late in life and I had no help (and none was expected). I scrimped and saved for the mortgage and never had the advantage of cheap property (although I bought a do-er upper in a little lull).

rainingsnoring · 20/01/2024 10:02

Harrietsaunt · 20/01/2024 09:56

I’m a bit torn on this @toastlover100

My DC are young adults. If I had plenty of free cash I would definitely give them money for a house deposit ahead of upsizing my own home.

What would put me right off in your case is that you would prioritise a £5k wedding over a house.

No way would I be contributing to that complete waste of money. Just my view, but my money.

That's interesting. What do think that @toastlover100 should spend on her wedding? £5000 is a relatively low budget nowadays.

zingally · 20/01/2024 10:02

My parents did the same.

Honestly, it never occurred to me to feel mad about it. After all, it'll be mine one day anyway.
My parents went from an average sized 4-bed detached (although 2 were box rooms really) to a HUGE 4-bed barn conversion. Literally, their living room is the size of my entire flat. THEN there's a large dining room, a big kitchen and a big study.

EveryonesSlaveApparently · 20/01/2024 10:04

rainingsnoring · 20/01/2024 09:59

Obviously some money would be welcome for many and some, particularly those being 'forced' recently to take on 35/40 yr mortgage terms now because of unaffordable house prices. My point is that money or the ability to afford a comfortable, secure, family home would be far more useful in around your late 20s/30s/40s when most people tend to have families and high expenses of mortgage combined with childcare and all the other costs of raising a family.

People in their 60s also need the ability to afford a comfortable and secure family home. I think you're going to be surprised when you hit 60 that 60 year olds are not as well off as you think on the whole, and having to consider how they will fund their future care needs. I'm assuming you're not planning to be able to do that for them.

My parents in their early 70s just had some essential work done. They had no water. They paid for it but they are being very careful with their small nest egg. I know it will run out eventually. I expect they will end up selling their house to fund it. Otherwise I'd have had to scrape it together because I couldn't leave them without water.

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