Retired parents UPSIZING house

[toastlover100]

I’m pretty sure IABU.

My parter and I are late 20s, renting, good careers but still waiting for salaries to increase much.

We are engaged and trying to save for a very small wedding, we know we could just go the registry office but that’s not what we want.

We are also trying to save a house deposit, but it’ll take a long time on current earnings. Hoping to maybe get there by mid thirties.

We would love to have children in the next couple of years but the likelihood is we will still be in our rented flat.

My parents are retired from reasonable jobs but never high earning at all. Through some luck, paying off their mortgage, house price rises, they are about to buy a house worth around a million. This is a huge upsizing.

AIBU to begrudge them this?
We are struggling to make any headway financially, spending thousands a year on rent, wanting a family but not being in the right position etc, whilst my parents are about to spend a huge amount of savings I didn’t know they had to upsize to a large family home they really don’t need.

It is a quandary. We're nearly retired at 68 and yes, we own our house and have some savings and a pension. Both my parents are still alive at 90 and 89, so I haven't inherited anything; DH received a low six figure sum, which was the residue of his parents' estates last year. Our DC is still living at home, while puzzling out their desired future, at nearly 25, and saving money. When we downsize, we shall add to their house deposit, but there won't be a huge handout to fund a wedding because we all believe that blowing big money on a lavish show is extravagant.

@Utterbunkum I think your views have been coloured by growing up in a particularly stressful environment in ? N Ireland. The situation in the rest of the UK was not as you describe.
There are some things that have measurably increased in recent decades (children's MH disorders, for example and eating disorders). However, even without these studies, it is clear that that mental health disorders have increased since the Gen X generation. Speak to any teacher or health care professional (like myself) who has been practicing for 20-40 years. Even a fairly observant parent of teenagers will have noticed an obvious increase.
The austerity years after the GFC have had a massive impact, social media has had a truly massive impact, particularly on teenage girls. In addition to these things, a large 'underclass' has developed over the last few decades, and increased in numbers over time. Unsurprisingly, these people all have mental health problems. I see them all the time as a GP and it has worsened over time.

I wasn't referring to ADHD as MH problems but these have increased too. Yes, diagnoses have increased for sure but I think that iPhones, access to social media in general plus the very widespread use of addictive games by young people. The instant gratification, addictive powers, competitive nature of SM, etc has led to more anxiety and much worse powers of concentration. There is some evidence for this and I have observed it for years myself.

I won't reply anymore on this subject because I think we have got really off topic here!

@rainingsnoring I agree we have got off topic, but just to respond that no, I wasn't in N.I, the bomb scare was actually in Somerset, would you believe, which is why I had an abnormal anxiety given the risk levels, which today would be flagged for investigation. It wasn't then.
No, we didn't have social media, but nobody gave a damn if we were bullied (which I was, badly) - fact of life get on with it was the mantra. Domestic abuse was more accepted, as was racism, sexism, and don't even get me started on attitudes towards disability.

But yeah, it was a hundred times better because SOME of us could buy a house. If it was all so great and we were all so healthy and happy, why is everyone so keen to dismiss traditional parenting methods if we were all so happy and so much better off in the decades when corporal punishment was still in state schools until 1986(I got smacked gard enough to see the handmark by a teacher at primary school and nobody batted an eyelid. I certainly didn't tell my parents because I would have got a bollocking for being naughty in the first place)
Times have changed. A lot. And whilst it's good to recognise that this generation certainly has problems, it's unfair and downright offensive to suggest we all had an easy time of it and didn't have our own shit to deal with.

'it's unfair and downright offensive to suggest we all had an easy time of it and didn't have our own shit to deal with.'
Yes, but literally no one has suggested that. We are not dealing with absolutes, it would be stupid to think so. Of course, some things have improved.
However, overall, the boomer generation has been the most fortunate of all generations to date and likely in the future. Things have got worse gradually through Gen X, Millennials, etc. Just to bring it back to this thread, this sort of tale is absolutely commonplace now, whereas in the past, most people had a home and a family by aged 25 yrs. Now most (or certainly many) live in their parents' spare room.

I agree with @Utterbunkum and I didn't grow up in the UK. I could have used some mental help. We were just dealing with things on our own and learned our own coping mechanisms, productive and unproductive. Today I am unable to ask for help I might need because I am a super coper as a result of having to learn to be as a child. As for teachers, I have no respect for their capacity to recognise ND children, even now, definitely not back then. Even ND children can be taught to be too scared to do anything but sit there quietly when the teachers employ belts and straps and canes. If you've been teaching for as long as you say, then you are old enough to have been my teacher, so it's not really that long ago.

I do agree that SM is a very negative influence on younger people and I'm glad I grew up before that was much of a thing.

I'm not a teacher @EveryonesSlaveApparently!
I don't think you have actually read what I have written.

Oh come on - how many people would have admitted to mental health issues years ago?

Very, very few.

If you can afford it, it is selfish to see your children suffer. But what is the definition of suffering?

My dc will all get large deposits, as long as they are working, enough to buy a flat outright or get something bigger with a mortgage but I can afford it and I am very dc focused. My parents did it for me and dh.

Something that has not been mentioned but would be on my mind. If there is a bf/partner/husband of my child. My gift is to my child and is to go down the family line. A gift needs the partner to sign an agreement if the property is joint.

Upsizing seems odd unless there are other funds sufficient for living costs, old age and care too.

Many downsize to release funds for their retirement. We do not know OP parents exact circumstances.

Agree with PP. I was not gifted anything by my surviving parent who bought a more expensive house when I was in my early 20s. However I am aware that his first priority was to himself and his future costs (he has very little pension, was self employed). I think he was trying to avoid being a burden on me in future. It’s also worth thinking that for older generations they weren’t gifted money by their parents, maybe their parents couldn’t do it or maybe didn’t want to. Times were different and children were expected to go out and make their own way in the world. My parents thought it would toughen us up to go out and make our own way. I suppose it does, but it would have been nice to have a helping hand. I’ll be doing that for my DC only if I can be sure we are financially independent first.

I wonder at what age it's now acceptable to say that your adult children are no longer financially your responsibility as parents now? Seemingly never according to some opinions.

I think the Government made it clear that we should fund them in higher education until they reach 25. Then if they start out in their careers we may need to help as Guarantors for rental properties. Then when they are in a position to think about buying a flat/house out comes Mum and Dad's magic cheque book again. By this point said children could be in their 30's. Then along come Grandchildren - which Grandparents are seemingly expected to provide free childcare for as professional childcare is too expensive. And so it goes on.

I lived at home until i got married at 24. My parents paid for our wedding - as was traditional 36 years ago. But beyond that I didn't get another penny from them as I was expected to stand on my own two feet - as were my 2 siblings. We managed to buy a modest house. It was tough at the start and all of our furniture was 2nd hand. We didn't have holidays abroad - 1 week in the UK was a luxury. Eating out/takeaways were a rare treat. I can't help thinking that expectations of the younger generation are far higher than ours were.

"We managed to buy a modest house. It was tough at the start and all of our furniture was 2nd hand. We didn't have holidays abroad - 1 week in the UK was a luxury. Eating out/takeaways were a rare treat. I can't help thinking that expectations of the younger generation are far higher than ours were."

Sorry but I don't think this is right at all and frankly you sound completely out of touch. For the record you're not that much older than me (I'm early-mid 40s) so I'm not being selfish and thinking about my own age group here.
The youngsters I know do get most stuff second hand from Facebook groups it's a myth - apparently perpetuated by older people who like to claim everything was harder when they were young - that youngsters have to have everything brand new.
It's just that they cant afford to buy the house in the first place. Most of them round here live in house shares at the age of 24 which is when you bought your first place. They aspire to rent a place of their own(no chance of buying), for much more than the mortgage would cost, in an unsecure tenancy where the landlord could just kick them out or raise the rent.
And yes maybe they have holidays abroad once a year or eat out / get takeaways more often than you used to but why would you begrudge that when saving those things won't be enough to save for a deposit anyway? If they spend, say £1,000 on a holiday and maybe £150 a month on going out / takeaways - how long would they have to save up to have a 10% deposit? By the time they had enough house prices will likely have risen and it won't be enough.
So frankly it's just not comparable with when you - or even I - was starting out!

I know, it's terrible children can't stand on there own two feet nowadays. What a shame we build such a shit world for them.

I mean there has to be a balance between the younger generation taking responsibility and the older one letting it go. Our 20s onwards are all about finding a place in the world and becoming independent, working hard and getting a good job. The exception I think is the struggle to get enough deposit and if the older generation can help with that that's great but they can't ensure financial stability for the younger generation long term.

@Sillywillywoowoo I'm at least 15 years older than you and I'm definitely not "out of touch". For your information I have an adult DS who has been living at home since he graduated 2 1/2 years ago, so I'm well aware of the difficulties of getting on the property ladder. And we don't live in an area where professional house/flat shares are a thing. So we agreed that DS could live here and save for a house deposit rather than waste money on expensive rent which would prevent him from saving.
I also have a number of adult nieces and nephews who seem to be forever on weekend breaks or luxury holidays abroad. I don't begrudge them that but they make a choice and that lifestyle delays them getting on the property ladder even further.

I was merely posing the question when are we, as parents, resolved of the perceived obligation to keep funding our adult children for fear of being criticised for having "kicked them out and pulled up the drawbridge" to quote a PP.

@Kendodd I didn't build a sh*t world for anyone. I've never been a Tory voter!! You can blame Maggie for the start of the housing crisis we now find ourselves in.

I think the same thing goes for all those people saying that they would give up lots of luxuries to help their children become home-owners.

I was 63 (now) when I became, finally, financially comfortable. As a child we lived in extreme poverty, then in care, then low paid jobs with no hope of getting on a property ladder.

I was 37 when we bought our house and had children. Then I was skint all the time (because children, bills etc) but at least we had a nice roof over our heads whilst I scouted around for money down the sofa near to pay day.

Then came 5yrs of uni. Boys had a ball, we were still skint after paying their rent/topping up.

Now they are (almost) self sufficient. We have disposable income, we are retired and we, and they, have a lovely life. I'm not giving up my current luxuries for anyone - even my children (unless in emergencies of course). I've only just got them without having to put family first and I'm going to enjoy them for a few years at least. It's our turn to have fun.

My boys will do what they do, and, whilst I wouldn't see them seriously struggling, I want them to be responsible for themselves. I don't want them hanging around for handouts just because they think we should give them our newly disposable income.

I think you are the one who's out of touch tbh. I'm the parent of young adults in their 20s so I know first-hand what I am talking about.

I have two of them living at home. The third is studying abroad at our expense. No funding. Eldest saving for a house deposit - on target apparently for the summer. Youngest in uni.

The amount of takeaways that come into our house is frankly scandalous. I can't stop them - they are adults. Eldest likes their holidays. The expect to have the latest phone. Just had a standoff with youngest not wanting to do dishwasher because they didn't use any plates ffs. They have to have the latest phones.

I thought I had brought them up fairly strictly but it seems that we have failed. I am very proud of them and they are all doing well, but they are so fucking entitled. It's not just mine either - my friends' kids are all the same.

Eldest was annoyed that I saved our old sofa for their new house. They didn't want it. Now saying oh maybe it will have to do for a bit.

A friend's son (similar age) and wife bought their first house. Detached, 4 bed, turnkey. All kitted out with the best of everything.

We bought our first house and it was bare of anything. We had brought a cooker and a tumble dryer, oh and a deep fat fryer, sandwich toaster, and a table, that we owned from our flat in London. No painting done, no curtain poles, no curtains, no floor covering (except where the kitchen as it came as standard - new build). Got an elderly crap sofa bed from MIL, and when you sat on it, it slid forward leaving you on your knees on the floor. Didn't have a cooker for three months.

How many YP would tolerate that now? They'd have a better chance of saving a deposit if they were willing to settle for less, as my generation did. My eldest keeps buying things for the house they haven't yet bought and our home and garage are groaning at the seams already with the contents of their flat and the middle one's flat. Of course this generation has way way higher expectations. I see it in my house every day!!!!

So, how have you contributed to building a shit world for them?

I'm pretty sure I haven't.

They got the best of everything we could afford for them, school trips, activities, nice clothes, tech, you name it (maybe that's why they are so fucking entitled now?!)

We lived our lives, went to work, came home again. I'm not sure what I could have done differently. Where I live, I am not in a position to influence whoever is in government.

Tbf selling off council housing was on the cards in the late 70’s government before Maggie got in, she just ran with it as it was right up her street. Labour also had 13 years in power and didn’t even attempt to increase affordable housing, I say this as a very disaffected labour voter.

Both my hard working parents died before they could retire

Discussed already in earlier posts.

I'm 50 and I remember the 80s very well. It wasn't all beer and skittles. I lived in London and remember bomb scares and train stations/shopping centres being evacuated. People with sensitive jobs having to check their cars of a morning.
And I remember care in the community, which basically meant no care and letting the community feel the consequences of that. So MH issues weren't seen as manageable and no one I know would have admitted to having them!
I agree that lots of young people want everything brand new, immediately. I think that's the influence of social media and seeing all this fake reality. That wasn't presented to my generation as a norm, so I didn't feel deprived when I rented my first house and had a tiny tv balanced on a tray with legs because I couldn't afford a tv unit! I had to borrow money from the council to buy a bed and a fridge etc (which I had to repay gradually).

@Runnerinthenight I appreciate that’s your experience but that’s not familiar to me or anyone I know. Nobody has moved into a 4 bed turnkey detached house. Everyone uses second hand, hand me down furniture, spends all their free time decorating the house on the cheap over months and months. I’m in my thirties and would only ever get a new phone if mine broke and even then I’d get an old model so it’s cheaper as would everyone I know.
It must be the circles they’re in but don’t think all young people are that materialistic and wasteful as your kids- we aren’t.

As a generation we have sold off all the council houses (along with everything else publicly owned) , didn't let more be built. Opposed new building of houses at every opportunity. Rubbed are hands in glee at house price increases instead of trying to address the problems this would create for younger people. Turned housing into a financial asset and created the massive buy to let market. Bedroom tax.
That's just some of the problems we've created in housing.

@Kendodd We did not. The Tories did that. Don't blame us.