To say that just because someone is opposed to " Trans Acceptance Without Exception" it doesn't mean that they are GC or Feminist.

[TooBigForMyBoots]

And it's important to understand the difference?

Some oppose Trans Rights Activism from a Radical Feminist POV. Gender is abstract. A societal construct that can be accepted, rejected or adapted throughout life. Gender is different to biological sex which is scientifically binary and immutable so Gender is not really important and not a stable basis for law.

Some oppose Trans Rights Activism from a Feminist POV. Gender might have a biological component. Fine with gender ideology long as biological women's rights, security and single sex spaces are safe with no encroachment from males.

Some oppose Trans Activism because it goes against their religious beliefs. It does not make them GC or Feminist.

Some oppose it because they believe in stereotypical gender roles. Men should be men and women should be women. This is not GC or Feminist.

Some oppose it because of misogyny. They hate women. They hate men pretending to be women because it debases men. This is not GC or feminist.

Am i being Unreasonable to say that just because someone is opposed to TRA "acceptance without exception", it doesnt mean they are Gender Critical or feminists. And we need to understand the difference.

Did you criticise the Labour Party when they introduced the Gender Recognition Act which made some men legally women?

They were the ones in Government at the time.

Yes, apparently it ALL just us being upset that someone dares to disagree with us.

Rather than the reality, that several posters have arrived, scolded and attempted to shame and frame women as 'progressing RW and the far right' with our thoughtless sharing of information from non-approved sources and apparently us being not aware of how media is manipulated.

But apparently it is all about us being upset that someone dares to disagree with us. Same old , same old.

We can keep repeating it but I doubt the message is sinking in.

TRAs do not want third spaces. If Stonewall had campaigned for third spaces, instead of lying that males were entitled to use women's spaces no matter what women might feel about that, I and I think many women would have happily fought with them. Everyone should have a space and feel safe in it.

It's not about the space. It's about being able to use the women in the space. Without the women in, it's just a changing room /loo /hospital bay, it's just 4 walls and a ceiling. You see it again and again, the space has to have women in, who were not consulted.

The GC position is the middle ground. Everyone with a space they are safe in - and if males aren't safe in the male space, that is for males to sort, women aren't human shields. But unfortunately, it turns out that a lot of people don't think women are actual full humans, and think that what women want or need is less important than what men want.

Exactly this @nothingcomestonothing exactjy this!!!!

It's not about the space. It's about being able to use the women in the space. Without the women in, it's just a changing room /loo /hospital bay, it's just 4 walls and a ceiling. You see it again and again, the space has to have women in, who were not consulted.

The GC position is the middle ground. Everyone with a space they are safe in - and if males aren't safe in the male space, that is for males to sort, women aren't human shields. But unfortunately, it turns out that a lot of people don't think women are actual full humans, and think that what women want or need is less important than what men want.

This is at the heart of the whole problem.

Yes. So true

And this is really important to note. This is the middle ground. It is the solution that doesn’t continue to harm women and girls.

How many times do we see people declare they have the ‘middle ground’ and propose unworkable solutions that continue the harm to women and girls? But those people feel that they are on the right side of history because they see themselves as the ‘moderates’. Which is a falsehood because they allow harm to continue.

TRAs don't want a third space.

Not my circus, not my monkeys. They should have never been put in women's spaces.

As we seem to have accidentally fallen into agreement, perhaps that’s a good place to stop.

😬😁

in my experience arguing about left and right achieves nothing nowadays. they dont exist anymore, at least not in the classical way, and now they change around every year so it becomes meaningless.

if you want to really understand why TRActivism is a thing, i would ask - what makes more money, telling people they need surgeries, lifelong drugs and endless products, or telling people they're okay as they are? follow the trail...

besides, what does it matter if i vote for the tories, who are tossing out womens right, labour, who are tossing out womens rights, lib dems or greens who are tossing out womens rights, and so on and so forth? theyre all doing the same thing, just in different ways.

I wasn't living in the UK at the time. But even if I had been, it probably would have passed me by.

Like most women, I didn't become aware of it until after PM May made her announcement and the Tory government started putting rapists into women's prisons.

Why you just can’t acknowledge that it was Labour laws which enabled rapists to be put in prisons I have no idea.

I wonder if you will also fail to notice Labour continuing to allow legal females into single sex spaces when they are in government as it seems to me that your rose tinted view of the ‘left’ means you will always assume they can do no wrong.

I hold left wing governments to higher standards and can acknowledge they are partially responsible for the situation we are in and that there is onus on them to commit to resolving the mess when then regain power.

I have been on thread catch up after work and am amazed at some of the projection and lies going on. If people read the thread they can clearly see where the insults are coming from!

Please ignore the quote post as I cannot undo it and I think I misunderstood it.

@DrBalenciaga ahhh this is exactly how it is . Dont worry you are def not the problem here 🫶🏻.

If this is what happens to people who agree with the GC policy position on such threads, imagine what happens when someone actually sincerely disagrees 😂😭 - this is why we don’t hear so many of those voices.

You choose to focus your energy on not the government, I focus mine on the government today because they have power. One of the things I look forward to if Labour form the next government is that when posters say "But Labour..." they will be fixing their focus on the actual government.

But you are the one who has made this a partisan issue, that was the whole purpose of your thread. You came on to scold women for not having your blinkered views.

Yet, you simply can't acknowledge the role the 'left' has in identity politics and in particular the role that Labour played in passing legislation that enabled trans women to enter all single sex spaces and the role it MUST have in rectifying the errors, that is assuming it was, in fact , an unintended consequence. I'm not so sure that that's the case, otherwise the party leadership would have no concerns in being unequivocal that that is the case and that they will rectify it when they get into power.

I've never actually come across anyone as blinkered in their belief that 'the left' is perfect as you are.

The purpose of my thread was to explain that GC has a specific meaning and is not a Catch-all term.

That is not a partisan issue. It's knowing the meaning of GC.

I've never actually come across anyone as blinkered in their belief that 'the left' is perfect as you are.

I don't think 'the left' is perfect. Nor have I ever said it. You just made that up.

Well I think your posts on here which state that the Tories are fully to blame for males being in women's single sex spaces are made up.

We know the legislation that enabled this was enacted by the Labour Party.

But you absolve them of all blame because 'Not Government now'.

So if I think you are blinkered then there's your evidence.

Had you said, it was unfortunate the Labour Party brought in the legislation than enabled this and acknowledged what several posters have pointed out, which is that this could have happened under any government and would have happened under Labour too, so what can we do to fix it? Then I might not have formed the opinion that you believe in the perfect left.

As it is you seek to argue that this is a right wing issue. It isn't. It was enacted by the left, the left want to keep it, they appear globally to love identity politics.

I'd love to know what the world is going to do to make women matter? Claiming it is a right wing issue just kicks it into the long grass.

Had you said, it was unfortunate the Labour Party brought in the legislation than enabled this and acknowledged what several posters have pointed out, which is that this could have happened under any government and would have happened under Labour too, so what can wedo to fix it? Then I might not have formed the opinion that you believe in the perfect left.

Why would I need to say it, when you and other posters pointed it out? And why do I have to say it for you to stop making up lies about me? BTW just because I don't give your pet political party, cookies in my posts, it doesnt make me a liar.

Forced speech is not free speech.

And apparently those eyes on this thread continue to show that they are not great at analysing the information that is right there in front of them or maybe it is just reading comprehension they are lacking. No wonder everything is darkness for them.

What are you banging on about?

You keep saying the blame lies on the current government.

That is patently untrue.

You are making out that telling the truth about how we have got to this point is a right wing position. Why else would you say 'because I don't give your pet political party cookies?'

I have never voted Tory in my life and am left leaning. Telling lies or omitting truths about the role that the left wing has played in this plays into this idea that GC = right wing which was the purpose of this thread.

I am talking toobig about the people reading and monitoring this thread who seem to have some trouble reading and accuracy doesn't appear in the reporting of this thread. My posts say exactly what I am talking about.

On another thread, we have a lawyer being told by an emotionless, compassion free ideological zealot who apparently thinks it's a good use of her talents to impose her weird gender beliefs on women, that it's not hyperbolic and exaggerated at all for a "non binary" person (who actually works with women who have truly experienced violence and humiliation by men) to describe merely receiving a polite email from a colleague asking clarification about how to describe her gender identity to a service user, ie a fucking rape survivor, as "violent and humiliating".

Wonder if the juvenile, hard of thinking subreddit clique agree that's a proportionate use of language. But absolutely can't be arsed to check.