To say that just because someone is opposed to " Trans Acceptance Without Exception" it doesn't mean that they are GC or Feminist.

[TooBigForMyBoots]

And it's important to understand the difference?

Some oppose Trans Rights Activism from a Radical Feminist POV. Gender is abstract. A societal construct that can be accepted, rejected or adapted throughout life. Gender is different to biological sex which is scientifically binary and immutable so Gender is not really important and not a stable basis for law.

Some oppose Trans Rights Activism from a Feminist POV. Gender might have a biological component. Fine with gender ideology long as biological women's rights, security and single sex spaces are safe with no encroachment from males.

Some oppose Trans Activism because it goes against their religious beliefs. It does not make them GC or Feminist.

Some oppose it because they believe in stereotypical gender roles. Men should be men and women should be women. This is not GC or Feminist.

Some oppose it because of misogyny. They hate women. They hate men pretending to be women because it debases men. This is not GC or feminist.

Am i being Unreasonable to say that just because someone is opposed to TRA "acceptance without exception", it doesnt mean they are Gender Critical or feminists. And we need to understand the difference.

Yes. Glad that you agree.

Who said you were being patronising? dadjoke2

Dadjoke says he is a man and comes across like a man. Why wouldn't we take him at his own word? So, incidentally do most "trans women". Male socialisation is a hell of a drug.

No, I don't know how much any individual talks about this issue or that issue. But I do know that among the GC community in general, issues that affect women without having anything to do with trans people get talked about a lot less and are less important than ones that do involve trans people. I mean you could look at the FWR topic titles and make a little tally chart and come up with a ratio.

What does it mean to "come across like a man" and is it biological or a sexist stereotype?

@RufustheFactualReindeer nobody, I got mixed up because our names are the same. I should do something about that really.

Its the stupidest gotcha in the world

’oh so you believe that someone on the internet that you can’t see is the sex they say they are ….well that must be the same as it is in the real world when you can actually see and hear them’

unless i know someone has lied before on the forum then obviously i am going to take them at face value til they demonstrate otherwise

@RufustheFactualReindeer nobody, I got mixed up because our names are the same. I should do something about that really

aaah gotcha

it was just a bit confusing cos you made it sound like someone was saying it to you and dadjoke

There's a thread on FWR right now where me and another poster with an extremely similar name are being called men because we're patronising and therefore obviously men

it was the we bit

but thank you for clarifying

@RufustheFactualReindeer nobody, I got mixed up because our names are the same. I should do something about that really

and yeah thats a good idea, it’s confusing enough with the name changes 😀

names are difficult though, im only ever rufus the something reindeer cos i cant think of anything else 😀

Agree with what? That a random person says something on the internet and we are supposed to agree? Well I agree that that is an expectation.

However having been on threads with dadjoke for a long time has also given me enough cues that I don’t disbelieve what he has said about being male.

But I do know that among the GC community in general, issues that affect women without having anything to do with trans people get talked about a lot less and are less important than ones that do involve trans people.

It's very natural for people to hone in on new threats to women, that are not innate or long standing, but being introduced and actively encouraged by a contingent who seem to care about male feelings more than women's safety.

I mean, do we measure how many times a day we think about things? Then measure the level of concern and only when it’s all equal can we discuss it? Where do we post our scores?

Or are you just making assumptions? Based on your bigotry?

I am concerned about all women’s issues. This one is the one being discussed on this thread?

Do I really care about women? As opposed to what?

It’s clear you don’t care about women. I don’t understand why. But it’s clear that men feeling that they are women take priority.

And why do you keep bringing up ‘on a thread once’. What’s that got to do with anything? We can all make up anecdotes about what someone once said on a thread.

I do like how you didn’t address anything else I said though.

In the feminist groups in real life? You think this is all we discuss? Why do you think this?

Yeah why would women who care about women's rights talk about a movement which is attempting to change the actual definition of women? Why don't we all spend a lot more time talking about nappies, or flower arranging?

What does it mean to "come across like a man" and is it biological or a sexist stereotype?

I've already mentioned male socialisation in the post you are quoting, so you could maybe just read it?

Being GC is a shared belief/fact that is held by a wide range of people be it on religious grounds, misogynistic grounds etc

It's held by people who are sensible and realists, @Propertylover

Ten years ago, thus wasn't even a debate. Everyone knew that sex was binary, and that was that.

Best response on MN ever. Thoughtful, succinct and bloody funny

How does one distinguish between gender differences that are a) biological b) due to socialisation and c) stereotypes? I've heard that there are sex differences between men and women, and everything else is a stereotype. Which category does communication style come under?

You have ‘heard’ there’s sex differences. It’s not something you know?

No, I've heard that those are the two types of difference between men and women. Biological differences, and stereotypes. Is it true?

Genuinely have no clue what you are banging on about.

how have you only heard about biological difference in men and women. Do you mean you were taught it?

I have heard, from gender critical people, that there are only two types of differences between men and women. Biological differences (which I suppose would be the real, genuine differences) and stereotypes, which are fake differences. I'm asking whether that's true or not and where 'male socialisation' comes in. Are differences caused by socialisation e.g. "male entitlement" biological differences or just stereotypes?

There are differences between male and female stereotypes, yes, although honestly many overlap in terms of what they describe but are called different things. "Bossy" wife vs "leadership" male manager.

I don't believe that stereotypes are actually a significant difference between men and women in reality, no.

How does one distinguish between gender differences that are a) biological b) due to socialisation and c) stereotypes?

I made a handy list upthread of the difference between biological differences and stereotypes. I'm not really all that interested in endlessly pontificating about gender.

Interesting

would socialisation come under stereotypes 🤔

How does one distinguish between gender differences that are a) biological b) due to socialisation and c) stereotypes?

I don't get this - how do I tell if I'm looking at boobs or politeness? Is that the question?