To say that just because someone is opposed to " Trans Acceptance Without Exception" it doesn't mean that they are GC or Feminist.

[TooBigForMyBoots]

And it's important to understand the difference?

Some oppose Trans Rights Activism from a Radical Feminist POV. Gender is abstract. A societal construct that can be accepted, rejected or adapted throughout life. Gender is different to biological sex which is scientifically binary and immutable so Gender is not really important and not a stable basis for law.

Some oppose Trans Rights Activism from a Feminist POV. Gender might have a biological component. Fine with gender ideology long as biological women's rights, security and single sex spaces are safe with no encroachment from males.

Some oppose Trans Activism because it goes against their religious beliefs. It does not make them GC or Feminist.

Some oppose it because they believe in stereotypical gender roles. Men should be men and women should be women. This is not GC or Feminist.

Some oppose it because of misogyny. They hate women. They hate men pretending to be women because it debases men. This is not GC or feminist.

Am i being Unreasonable to say that just because someone is opposed to TRA "acceptance without exception", it doesnt mean they are Gender Critical or feminists. And we need to understand the difference.

As far as I can tell, most GC people absolutely believe in gender stereotypes they just insist they're immutable biological sex differences instead.

Dear Lord, that's embarrassing. Do think the KKK was a Black Rights movement as well?

Someone doesn't have any idea how much women on Mumsnet pushed this issue onto the agenda in the U.K. seven or so years ago. Someone's a bit of a sexist.

@Seasmoke7 you're completely wrong! Ever GC person I know, feminist or not does absolutely not believe in gender stereotypes! In fact "terfs" like myself are very much on par with second wave thinking! Gender stereotypes need to be completely destroyed!

Ha ha - we're just a bunch of 'hysterical' women who've got our pretty little heads confused over losing our right to single sex spaces to males who don't give a shit about our dignity or safety.

Some men REALLY don't like it when women say no to them so they come up with a load of stereotypical nonsense to claim that we are wrong.

Good god what a crock of shit.

So, @pikkumyy77 , women wanting fair and safe sports, yes, even at grassroots level, is a far right funded mass hysteria, that no sane woman would care about but would go fix the climate change instead?

No. I will never accept men and boys in womens sports. You can 'far right, hysterical, bigot, just like gays' all you want, the only person looking like a fool is you.

Also that poster seems to think that the very definition of the word woman is a 'stupid phrase'. Worrying really.

@pikkumyy77 my god, you don’t believe women’s rights are “actual human rights”. Says it all.

Which is why we should stop fighting each other, find acceptable common ground and try to agree on compromises that protect the safety and dignity of two vulnerable groups of people.

Not women's job.

If transwmen feel unsafe or lacking dignity in male spaces then it is up to them and their fellow males to make the compromises that protect the safety and dignity of those two groups of people. They are the ones with common ground.

Why should women compromise to accommodate colonisers?

Some men, TRAs in particular clearly don't see women as fully human.

lf they did they would listen to women who say that making spaces mixed sex by including males who identify as women harms women.

Instead they literally don't care. So long as their wishes are met.

There's a thread on FWR right now where me and another poster with an extremely similar name are being called men because we're patronising and therefore obviously men. I don't know whether those posters believe in that stereotype, if they think there is such a thing as being BIOLOGICALLY PATRONISING. I'm a woman anyway, and can be patronising, and talk down to other people, which doesn't make me any less of a woman.

instead of working for actual human rights

Women are actual humans. Women's rights, therefore, are actual human rights.

HTH.

being called men because we're patronising and therefore obviously men

dadjoke is a man, so that would be why he is being called a man

Do you all know that? I asked on that thread and they said it's obvious because of the way "he" communicates. Which is a stereotype.

Dadjoke has stated he is male and has been on FWR for years.

Exactly! DadJoke has said a number of time he’s a man - still he must like FWR as he’s always there telling us off 😆

Ah I see, he self-identifies as a man and that's how you know.

Who called you patronising on that thread?

Has Dadjoke come on here to make this thread all about him?

No lifeturnsonadime…just dadjoke2

I can’t see where number 2 has been called patronising on that thread but i may have missed it

im kind of hoping DJ has made another account to argue with himself 😆

Women have ALWAYS been vulnerable in prisons and hospitals because there are male prison guards, doctors, nurses and visitors. Statistically speaking women have always been more likely ti be raped by family members than strangers. If you all were working in prison reform all the goddamn time instead of intermittently when it scratches your transphobia itch you would know that.

Women have ALWAYS been vulnerable in prisons and hospitals because there are male prison guards, doctors, nurses and visitors.

'Women have always been in danger so let's make them more so, because it suits men' - is easily the shittiest argument going.

We all see your gross misogyny

It is forced teaming. By, wrongly, putting LW GC feminists under the same umbrella as as DT and the Tories they exploit ignorance to divide the left and push the discourse and voters to the right.

Ending family association isn't going to happen any time soon so if we're going to accept that we may as well just make it a free for all?