Are mumsneters TERFs

[ChedderGorgeous]

I started a thread on the new taskmaster line up here. This greatly angered a taskmaster fb group who screenshot the conversation and agreed all mumsnetters were TERFs. AIBU to suggest this isn't the general perception of others when you have mentioned mumsnet ? Ps. I still haven't heard of John Robins !

It is an out an out lie to say there is debate about trans people's right to public life and right to exist. An absolute lie.

I am still waiting for anyone to provide an MN post that says this.

But many of you appear to think a person cannot change gender

You mean sex. A person can't change sex. If you thought we were talking about gender, you were badly mistaken.

"A baby is assigned a sex/gender at birth, but when the baby grows up it may feel a different gender from the one it was assigned at birth. But many of you appear to think a person cannot change gender, with all the references to a 'man in a dress and lipstick' etc. It isn't just about the biological sex we are born with."

Don't give a shiny shit what "gender" you think you are. No one is assigned sex at birth. You are the same sex until the day you die and your skeleton gives your sex away when it's dug up a thousand years later. And sex matters. Gender doesn't.

Why don't you explain to me if you think trans people have the right to live in the gender they identify as and what rights exactly you think they should have, if any?

What's a TERF?

Likewise

All the GC posters reply with their coherent rebuttals and arguments but so many scream transphobia then run from any debate never to be seen again on the thread. Funny that.

Trans people can do whatever they want with the stereotypes that surround the male and female sex and I think that their rights should be the same as everyone elses and therefore they should adhere to sex based restrictions.

100% this! I've never really understood 'transphobe' as an insult. It currently seems like the WORST thing you can be in society.

But I disagree. In this instance, protecting women's spaces and rights, is my primary concern. Other people's opinions aren't 🤷‍♀️

I think this has been explained several times. The same rights as any other men or women, which is to dress how they want, call themselves by any name they want, and enter the space/sport/prison appropriate to their sex.

I don't know what a TERF is, but what is the name of someone who believes that there are two biological sexes and that you cannot change sex?

What is the name of someone who believes that all mammals are either male or female?

Not all of us are no. Not all of us are GC.

I believe they should have exactly all the rights that everyone has! That they should be able to live their lives free of discrimination, welcomed into the world and respected. Hell, I'll be happy to refer to them as their chosen name, pronouns if it makes their life easier. EXCEPT when it comes to women only spaces I believe they should remain sex-based due to years of research that shows men are, on average, a greater threat to women than other women.

Now, could you answer my question?

All of you know very well what I mean. A baby is assigned a sex/gender at birth, but when the baby grows up it may feel a different gender from the one it was assigned at birth. But many of you appear to think a person cannot change gender, with all the references to a 'man in a dress and lipstick' etc. It isn't just about the biological sex we are born with

No @meowie I have no idea what you mean. A baby is not assigned a sex at birth, its observed to have a sex based on secondary sex characteristics.

What do you mean by a baby grows up to feel a different gender? You mean a different sex? Or it feels it has a gender identity? What is a gender identity and what is your evidence for this existing as anything other than a modern social construct?

Why does one's gender identity give one access to sex based spaces? When sex and gender identity are different, which so many gender ideologues like to say they acknowledge they are?

But many of you appear to think a person cannot change gender

What are you talking about here? Are you talking about changing sex or changing gender identity? Or something else entirely? People cannot change sex. If someone chooses a gender identity, again, why should that give them access to sex based spaces?

So no, I no idea what you are talking about. I can't see coherence or logic for what you are saying at all. But would be interested to hear you giving an answer which makes sense of it.

The only reason mumsnet is associated with knowing that it is impossible to change sex is because the moderators were less repressive than on other sites. But all around the world the vast majority of people know the difference between male and female

This.

Men cannot become women, the end.

My experience is that if you mention Mumsnet, men will mock it or despise it, and younger women will laugh. As my appearance has aged, I have come to realise that society despises middle-aged women and will mock any gathering of them that dares voice an opinion, unless that opinion is solely to admire men and/or young women.

I would be depressed about this situation, but happily I am a middle-aged women and thus no longer care much about the opinions of others.

As to ‘terfs’ that’s a misogynist insult designed to shut down women’s conversations, and I can’t be bothered to discuss it anymore than other insults designed to belittle and shutdown women eg “slags”, “bitches”, “stupid old woman” “my psycho ex-girlfriend” etc etc

Biological sex is innate and immutable. Those are the facts, not just something I believe. I don't know if knowing facts makes me a TERF but if it does then yes I am.

I think most people on this thread and indeed in the world are TERFS. They just don't know what it means.

DH thought all these acronyms were unimportant, until he ended up on the board of a scheme in his workplace which encourages women in STEM to apply for a scholarship- especially POC women from low earning backgrounds-and he got posh white trans women applying. Then he suddenly woke up to the importance of women only spaces.

"Why don't you explain to me if you think trans people have the right to live in the gender they identify as and what rights exactly you think they should have, if any?"

Live how you like. Just stay the fuck out of women's spaces and sports.

A baby is assigned a sex/gender at birth, but when the baby grows up it may feel a different gender from the one it was assigned at birth.

No, babies are not 'assigned' anything. They are biologically male or female as defined by their chromosomes.

People can feel however they want. That doesn't give them the right or the ability to become a person of the opposite sex?!

So just to clarify, are TERFs not allowed to watch taskmaster? Is that the official guidance?

@StephanieSuperpowers when May Martin was on, it was hilarious watching Greg Davies desperately trying to find opportunities to talk about her on the third person and say "them". She's actually very funny and engaging. Shame about alll the tedious they/them nonsense.

A baby is assigned a sex/gender at birth, but when the baby grows up it may feel a different gender from the one it was assigned at birth. But many of you appear to think a person cannot change gender, with all the references to a 'man in a dress and lipstick' etc. It isn't just about the biological sex we are born with.

You are confusing the words sex and gender. You cannot debate this unless you understand the difference.

Sex is real and immutable. Sex in humans is established at the point of conception. Before the woman even knows she is pregnant. It is not 'assigned' by medical staff. When the child is born, it's sex is observed and recorded. This will always be the sex of that human. It cannot be changed, even by medical intervention or hormones.

Gender is a social construct. It is different depending on where you live in the world. It's based on how other people see you. You can change your gender by signalling to others that you wish to be regarded as a different sex. A 'man in a dress and lipstick' is signalling in this way. We can still see that he is a man but we can also see that he wishes to be regarded as not a man. This is transgenderism and because it relies totally on affirmation from strangers, it's a very difficult way to live. Some people, like Eddie Izzard for example, 'change' their gender by changing their clothes and therefore changing their signals. Eddie calls this boy mode/girl mode.

Many women do not like gender stereotypes being allocated to them because they are regressive and harmful (think of 1950s woman, womans place is in the home, unequal pay, weaker sex etc.) Because of this, they are critical of gender stereotypes (GC). This means that they don't believe being a woman is all about hair, clothes and makeup. And they certainly don't believe changing clothes is literally changing sex.

Yes, mumsnet IS full of TERFS. It’s the major issue I have with the site. I avoid the feminism board like the plague as somebody with friends and family members who have transitioned, I just find it full of bigots.