Are mumsneters TERFs

[ChedderGorgeous]

I started a thread on the new taskmaster line up here. This greatly angered a taskmaster fb group who screenshot the conversation and agreed all mumsnetters were TERFs. AIBU to suggest this isn't the general perception of others when you have mentioned mumsnet ? Ps. I still haven't heard of John Robins !

This is interesting. So what in would you argue defines a man?

Any biology textbook will explain what a man is:

A person with XY chromosomes has male sex hormones and reproductive organs, and is therefore biologically male.

Just like most other male mammals!

Biology.

The core value underlying all transphobia is a rejection of trans identity and a refusal to acknowledge that it could possibly be real or valid

So what in would you argue defines a man?

There's no 'arguing' needed.

I would suggest a man is an adult human male with a body formed around the production of small gametes whether that production has happened, is happening or will happen.

There is no one way to be a man. Men come in all forms and all shapes and where what they want. The only thing that all men have in common is their body formed around production of sperm from testes. Whether those testes are even fully functional.

The presence of a penis does not define a man. However, men usually have one. And there is a huge %, an overwhelming % of males with transgender identities that have stated that they will not part with them.

HTH. It is not a hard or confounding question.

Ok so external genitalia make no difference- What matters is chromosomes? But this isn’t generally how we make determinations about gender in the actual world. We didn’t even know about xx and xy chromosomes until very recently, and even today, these tests aren’t routinely used to determine sex…

The core value underlying all transphobia is a rejection of trans identity and a refusal to acknowledge that it could possibly be real or valid

It isn't real as it's biologically impossible.

But that doesn't make someone transphobic. So you actually know what a phobia is?

That's fine then. Negligible women on mn are transphobic then.
Because everyone agrees trans people exist and should be allowed to express their identity without discrimination, provided they don't infringe on the rights of female sex people to single sex spaces such as prisons, toilets, sports etc as in these cases biology matters Furthermore they don't have the right to compel speech of others and make people change from using biology based sex based pronouns to feelings based gender ones.

We didn’t even know about xx and xy chromosomes until very recently, and even today, these tests aren’t routinely used to determine sex…

Because most babies are born with obvious male or female genitalia, so it's not necessary.

I wonder whether you've ever studied biology?!

A rejection of trans identity and a refusal to acknowledge that it could possibly be real or valid is transphobic.

it doesn’t matter what your personal reason or belief underlying this is.

A possibility of something being real does not validate it as reality. Science is something that can be observed and measured, as biological sex is. Gender cannot be, you cannot observe and measure a personal belief. It’s the same reason god can’t be proved as real, it is fully reliant on the willingness to believe in a thought process rather than material reality.

Ok so genitalia is really important when you are born, but afterwards it doesn’t matter?

Absolutely perfect response 😁

All transphobic posts are deleted if they are reported. FWR is one of the most highly monitored boards on this forum.

Ergo there are no transphobic posts on MN if they are reported. And I doubt any posts that might be construed as transphobic remain unreported.

it doesn’t matter what your personal reason or belief underlying this is.

That can be attributed to trans belief. As that's what it is, a belief system, which no one has to believe in if they don't want to. Like believing in God.

Unlike biological reality, which can't be denied.

See this is a major fallacy.

we cannot objectively “observe” all kinds of things with current scientific technologies, that does not mean they aren’t “real” or a “personal belief”.

Chromosomes are a perfect example of this in the past. Now we can observe them.

there are many many other examples. Sexuality would be one, you cannot observe and measure someone’s sexuality, that doesn’t mean that sexuality is a “personal belief”

Male external genitalia is not necesssary for a male human to be categorised as a male person. It is having a body that was formed around the production of small gametes.

A male without a penis is still a male human. Even external testes is not a defining characteristic although they are usually present.

Maybe the word should be reclaimed and used as a badge of honour but any use by those who use it to berate and criticise should be shouted down. Like the appropriation of the N word by some rappers, or the Q word by some LGBGT people?

There is no such thing as a trans identity.

There are people with dysphoria, it doesn't make them the opposite sex.

Then there are transvestites. Which is a fetish. (AGP in new money)

I am not a TERF because I include Transmen in my feminist principles because they are female.

That's fine then. Negligible women on mn are transphobic then

as pleased as i am to find out i am not actually transphobic unfortunately the meaning of transphobic seems to change from website to website and person to person

although my favourite parts of these threads is when a poster comes on saying everyone is transphobic but them and it turns out that they are transphobic as well…and that happens A LOT

So you think Mumsnet headquarters is the authority on what is transphobic? That’s laughable.

Mumsnet take a position of allowing people to have their say on this topic, even if “their say” is seeped in transphobic prejudice. On the whole I think allowing as much debate as possible is the right thing to do. That doesn’t mean that we should refrain from calling these expressed views and opinions exactly what they are- which is transphobic.

It's not hard to define. A man is a boy who has grown to adulthood. Sex is unambiguous in the vast, vast majority of baby boys.

Mumsnet take a position of allowing people to have their say on this topic, even if “their say” is seeped in transphobic prejudice. On the whole I think allowing as much debate as possible is the right thing to do. That doesn’t mean that we should refrain from calling these expressed views and opinions exactly what they are- which is transphobic.

And I'm going to call out misogynistic views and opinions that too 🤷‍♀️

There is no such thing as a trans identity.

I am not compelled to believe in anyone's 'trans identity' any more than I am compelled to believe in their 'soul'.

Good for you. I wouldn’t ask for anything less. I do the same.