Are mumsneters TERFs

[ChedderGorgeous]

I started a thread on the new taskmaster line up here. This greatly angered a taskmaster fb group who screenshot the conversation and agreed all mumsnetters were TERFs. AIBU to suggest this isn't the general perception of others when you have mentioned mumsnet ? Ps. I still haven't heard of John Robins !

Readers note (not aimed at any particular poster in this thread) : Chromosomes are not routinely tested unless there is some reason to test chromosomes. And chromosomes are only one part of the body that specialist medical practitioners use to categorise all humans into either male or female sex categories.

The utilisation of people with Differences of Sex Development to destabilise the science of sex in humans is offensive to many of those with the condition.

No human has produced both large gametes (ova) and small gametes (sperm).

You are not compelled to believe anything.

however, as stated, a rejection of trans identity and a refusal to acknowledge that it could possibly be real or valid is a form of transphobia.

you are free to hold transphobic beliefs,
of course.

you are also free to express them, for the most part, on mumsnet.

I am free to call these opinions what they are- which is transphobic.

And when every single gender can be observed and measured then I’ll believe it. But in the meantime all logic points to gender being a personal belief set upon sexist ideals of what it means to be a man or woman.

As for sexuality, it can be observed and measured. For example, homosexuality can be observed in other mammalian groups, it isn’t a human construct. Changing sex is not a natural occurrence in mammals, it needs human belief, validation and active participation to occur. Very simply put, if humanity disappeared tomorrow, would we still have gender in the natural world, along with biological sex?

Being a male of the human species. Cutting off your penis doesn't stop you being male. Just makes you a man without a penis.

You say we are not compelled to believe, then put conditions of consequence onto to that. ‘You don’t have to believe, but you will be seen as a heretic and a social pariah, tainted with a label that could have you tarred in every area of your life.’. History continues to repeat itself.

You are not compelled to believe anything.

however, as stated, a rejection of trans identity and a refusal to acknowledge that it could possibly be real or valid is a form of transphobia.

you are free to hold transphobic beliefs,of course.

you are also free to express them, for the most part, on mumsnet.

I am free to call these opinions what they are- which is transphobic.

You are, and people are also free to observe that "transphobia" is a pretty meaningless term, given that it describes what the vast majority of society across the world believe, and perhaps we shouldn't really get too hung up on it.

Who is rejecting 'trans identity'? Human beings cannot change sex - nothing anti-trans about this fact. Mother Nature doesn't give a shit about dodgy political/religious ideologies, facts are facts.

*Birthing parent Nature of course is what I means to say...

I suspect that readers of this thread might do well to look up the judgement of Rachel Meade, a social worker who recently won an employment tribunal case where an ex-colleague reported Rachel to her employer for transphobia.

The judgement makes it clear that women simply stating their boundaries, and stating why they believe that there are conflicts where male people have demanded to be treated as female people, is not necessarily ‘transphobic’ as some people believe. The court found that Rachel, expressing many of the views being called ‘transphobic’ here are not transphobic at all.

Therefore, perhaps be wary of people who seem overly invested in vilifying others calling them names and misrepresenting reasonably held views as ‘transphobic’.

https://www.colekhan.co.uk/news/uvzuy6kcrtb5lwg59pxbs44tqbeuj2?s=08

No human has produced both large gametes (ova) and small gametes

I am not a biologist but I understand this statement to be too absolute.

For example, some people have gametes that have both ovarian and testicular elements.

I do like the definition of biological sex as a “body organised around the production of” smaller or larger gametes. But this is a complex and variable process - as is conveyed well by the description, and there is no singular test for it. Nor does it define gender.

Gender identity ideology is misogynistic to its core. A failure to acknowledge that is a form of misogyny.

I don't mind if religious zealots want to call me heathen, infidel, heretic or transphobic. I don't care what they think. I am an atheist.

I am not a biologist

Yes that's clear.

Yes this.

yes, there are a lot of transphobic people in the world. Especially at the moment in the UK and on mumsnet.

There are also a lot of homophobic people in the world, and a lot of misogynistic people. There are a lot of ableist people, and racist people, etc. that doesn’t render any of these concepts meaningless.

I am not a biologist but I understand this statement to be too absolute.

For example, some people have gametes that have both ovarian and testicular elements

Read the statement again, it's correct. What you have posted there doesn't invalidate it.

I don't mind if religious zealots want to call me heathen, infidel, heretic or transphobic. I don't care what they think. I am an atheist.

Exactly. They can all rage all they want. 🤷‍♀️

You are clearly not a biologist Tandora, neither will you listen to the patient, intelligent women debating with you. Perhaps you will listen to a genuine expert?

Who is rejecting 'trans identity'?

A few posters on the previous pages.

that doesn’t render any of these concepts meaningless

It's not the fact that many people don't believe in it that renders the mere disbelief in gender identity ideology as "transphobia" meaningless. It's the fact that gender identity ideology is a pseudoscientific faith belief based on magical thinking.

None of its adherents are ever able to provide a case for why I should believe in it other than, because I say so, or more manipulatively "because it's kind". No. It is not.

And what terrible persecutions have you suffered so far as a result of that label?

So far the grievance seems to be that I, an anonymous poster, responded to a mumsnet thread and shared my view that the feminism board on mumsnet is dominated by ignorance/transphobia .

What I am I ignorant about @Tandora?

Make your case for why I should believe gender identity is more important than sex. Go on.

TERF, TERF, TERF, definitely proud of it!!

Anyone can claim any identity they want - doesn't mean it is grounded in any reality does it?

Yes I understand that my statement isn’t exactly refuting the other statement, but I don’t accept that they aren’t related. And I don’t think Helle’s statement is proven. How could it be?

Tandorora I am interested in your thoughts on what Prof Winston said...is he a nasty TERF?