Are mumsneters TERFs

[ChedderGorgeous]

I started a thread on the new taskmaster line up here. This greatly angered a taskmaster fb group who screenshot the conversation and agreed all mumsnetters were TERFs. AIBU to suggest this isn't the general perception of others when you have mentioned mumsnet ? Ps. I still haven't heard of John Robins !

Do you understand their lived experience is only ever that as a male who is living as their concept of how a woman lives? Nothing more.

Not even surgery or hormones change these male people from being male people. They then just become male people taking cross sex hormones and having surgery. Not a woman. Not any kind of female person. And not any special third sex.

I've done more than my share in 'backing up' my arguments today. You're just being a bully.

I'm not being a bully just because I don't believe you've seen FWR posters talking about "chicks with dicks". And I absolutely do not. You can't back it up, so I'm not going to give it any credence.

Meowie has continously insulted and lied about posters, with lots of personal attacks. I should think they will be mostly deleted by tomorrow. Maybe they'll learn from it.

Can you explain the physiological differences between men and transwomen?

@meowie i know you’re being tagged a lot and it’s getting a bit heated (mostly from your own contradictions but there we go). Could I ask you one more thing though?

If a trans person or full blown TRA came here and said ‘either accept us in single sex spaces or be labelled a TERF forever more’, would you change your view or would you accept that the views you hold are seen as transphobia despite trying to be a kind and understanding person?

Me too! 😊

You can't back it up, so I'm not going to give it any credence
You gaslight people as shown on this thread so why should they engage properly with you?
See
"What poster? Some random.Is it another FWR poster?"
Blatant gaslighting.

I wouldn't base my opinion on the whole issue on what one person said.

But now I do have to get on with life, so sayonara all.

No one has to believe vague accusations about what people say on FWR that they can't actually back up

Just like noone has to engage you in "debate," or engage in your gaslighting attempts.

Yes, it took me a little while to remember why I don't engage with you @NoMoreFalafelsForYou. See you on the next name change I guess.

I think they’d be surprised at the backlash and anger they’d see towards them if it wasn’t just posting to berate mners

I wouldn't base my opinion on the whole issue on what one person said.

Who does?

You don't even know what gaslighting means. Not by this thread anyway.

A transwoman needs to tell you that as it is their lived experience. What I'm arguing for is respect and dignity for them.

So, to give these men respect & dignity I have to give up my own belief system, my own spaces, my knowledge of science and every opinion I have on the issue. Okay, so what are these men doing to show ME respect & dignity or is it all one way?

It wouldn’t be one person. Many many people would find your view on single sex spaces transphobic unfortunately. I understand you don’t really want to delve further into that thought though.

I would say, I hope you’ve at least had your eyes opened a little on how ‘TERFs’ are treated though, you’ve had a taste of it. Thinking you’ve spent your life being a liberal and open minded person only to find that holding one opinion brings you down to the level of the villains. Even if you can’t accept it, you do share our thoughts - it’s just you’ve decided there’s one side or the other to be on in this debate when evidently it’s a much wider area of discussion.

I don’t think they should.
its not our side that believes in cancellation and ‘no debate’.

Yes, it took me a little while to remember why I don't engage with you @NoMoreFalafelsForYou

👍
Well, you're still not denying it, are you?!
Seems like you've moved on from gaslighting over it at least.

@NoMoreFalafelsForYou it's not "gaslighting" to express disbelief and ask for evidence. Nor to express a different personal experience. It would be gaslighting to post the phrase you object to, have it removed, and then claim never to have posted it, for example.

Okay, so what are these men doing to show ME respect & dignity or is it all one way?

Take a wild guess 🫠

it's not "gaslighting" to express disbelief and ask for evidence

You're completely right, it's not.
It IS gaslighting to pretend you don't know what a poster is talking about, that they don't know who you mean, are you sure you know what you're talking about? etc when they full well know.

It's surprising to see posters who think they aren't terfs stating the same opinion as people who are called terfs.

@meowie you have a very arbitrary way of stating your logic. You have said TW are W but not when it comes to female sport or female spaces. However, you do think that TW should be able to accept female only awards for areas where females have historically and presently been disadvantaged because of their sex.

It's really interesting to see how you can pick and choose when TW are W and yet still believe this doesn't make you a terf. (Btw don't be scared of that label as, as you can see, it's pretty meaningless).

Regarding your personal opinion of All Women Shortlists - if you can't see sex, you can't see sexism.

Presumably you're talking about a specific poster? Just be clear, say who is lying and what they are lying about and then don't engage with that poster. Rather than all this cloak and dagger business that no one else has any clue about. Especially if you have name changed since whatever specific incidence you are referring to happened.

I don't think that anything on this thread should be deleted. It's very useful to see how TERFs and "allies" are not really that far apart.

I'm a feminist but I don't have a problem with being called a TERF. One of the things that doesn't get talked about a lot is how trans ideology conflicts with gender equality. As an older dad with two young girls, I want them to have at least as many opportunities to make their way in this world as boys and men, and I'll fight for that. Men transition to try to become women for a variety of reasons, but I haven't seen one yet who's done it to further the cause of women's gender equality. More often they do it to occupy women's spaces (again, in a variety of ways), and to try to live out their own imagination of womanhood. I'm not anti trans, people can try to be whoever they want to be, but that doesn't mean I have to accept their wholesale attempts to rewrite the history and present of feminism in ways that impact my wife, girls, and me. The trans movement has overreached, there will be push back, and I worry for futures of all the young people and children who are transitioning or being indoctrinated now.

It's really interesting to see how you can pick and choose when TW are W

The thing about 'TWAW' is that it really is all or nothing.

If you believe it, why would you exclude TW from women's sports or prisons?

If you don't, why would you include women in women's shortlists or use women's pronouns?

There needs to be logical consistency in your view.