Are mumsneters TERFs

[ChedderGorgeous]

I started a thread on the new taskmaster line up here. This greatly angered a taskmaster fb group who screenshot the conversation and agreed all mumsnetters were TERFs. AIBU to suggest this isn't the general perception of others when you have mentioned mumsnet ? Ps. I still haven't heard of John Robins !

You see, you ARE transphobic.

Because for centuries women have had to use male pseudonyms to even be published! What a shockingly shit example when publishing is an extremely sexust industry. Ffs

No. They don't need to tell me their lived experience.

Do you understand their lived experience is only ever that as a male who is living as their concept of how a woman lives? Nothing more.

Do you understand the reality of this? They are not women because they can never be a woman who is an adult female human dealing with their life with a body that is female sexed.

Even if they have surgery, a male is still just a male person who has had extreme body modifications. There is NO doubt that they are trans. But they are first and foremost male and always will be.

So you are here arguing for respect and dignity for them at the detriment of women and girls. Because you seem to want people to use the words that you believe is 'respectful' when others have found and understood that using those words brings harm to women and girls.

You can scold people all you like. But it doesn't actually change what is happening and what we can tell you what is the impact. You have chosen. You have chosen to scold people who probably have done the research, have had the hard and robust discussions and have understood the ramifications of using the words that YOU insist is respectful.

Did you know that by using the words that you seem to believe is respectful, a male who has been on consultation committees for formulating the rules for the Olympics convinced the OIC to allow males to compete as female athletes in the last Olympics? Did you know this? Now that you do, do you think that maybe women here posting on this thread to you have a point?

Haha, yes, pro-trans arguments are so masculine! Just as (misogynist) blokes are sure that women spend their time together talking about men in a derogatory way, genderists believe we've got nothing better to think about than them and their daft ideas.

The poor loves 🙄

of course they should be treated with dignity & respect as should all people!

no one is saying they shouldn’t

however I would also add that TRA do not treat women with dignity & respect. If they did they wouldn’t force their way into women’s single sex spaces. They wouldn’t take spaces in women’s sports teams, they wouldn’t demand that they join women’s rape support groups, they wouldn’t take jobs designated for women under the equality act 2010 single sex exemptions, they wouldn’t have forced the women’s pond on Hampstead Heath ti accept TW so that men can now access 3 ponds (men’s, mixed and women’s) and women who want a single sex pond now have nothing for them

A transwoman needs to tell you that as it is their lived experience. What I'm arguing for is respect and dignity for them.

What about a woman's lived experience as a rape victim? Who don't want to be in the same space as a biological male? Are their 'lived experience' not as valid as a transwoman's?

As long as they get to refer to transwomen as 'chicks with dicks' living a fantasy etc etc.

It's been bandied about but established before in these threads that there is zero evidence of FWR posters who aren't fly by night screenshot chasers saying "chicks with dicks". It would certainly be rapidly deleted even if there was. It's not a term "terfs" would use.

Can you answer the question? Or are you going to continue to deflect because you only have emotional manipulation, whether you intend it to be or not, to support your opinions?

But you're not following the debate, you're just screaming.

I said I agree that some single sex spaces are necessary.

Because women have had to fight so hard to be recognised as authors/singers/entertainers. They have had to fight to be able to work, go to university, do all the things that men never had an issues doing for hundreds of years - it wasn’t a woman’s place. So when you see awards or scholarships or female only placements being given to male born people, it completely undermines everything women have fought for, recognition that our sex can do things just as much and as well as men can.

And don’t mention open categories - was it the Brits that did this and ended up only having male nominees? Happy to be corrected.

You see, you ARE transphobic.

Like most people in the country who know what biological sex is 🤷‍♀️ no, I won't pretend, because it's not just about what trans people want, other people have rights too.

The moderation on MN is very strict and nothing like 'chick with dicks' can remain on this forum. And quite rightly so.

Ah gotcha, thanks. I thought there was some perceived 'transphobic' comment on MN about TM which was what confused me.

If nothing else, Greg and Alex will be glad of the exposure (no pun intended) 😁

Of course no-one can know what you believe in your heart.

But opinions like many I've read here today have an impact on the lives and treatment of trans people.

%The moderation on MN is very strict and nothing like 'chick with dicks' can remain on this forum. And quite rightly so.

I think that fake news has been spread on every thread like this.

The industry is sexist, yes, but including transwomen isn't sexist. You're confusing things.

But opinions like many I've read here today have an impact on the lives and treatment of trans people.

At some point, we have to say, sorry you feel like that, but it's too bad, because everything is not actually about you and we need to use clear language to articulate our own needs.

And, say, all women shortlists for a book award - I see no reason whatsoever why transwomen cannot be included, and I'm glad they are!

I give you Ellis, Acton and Currer Bell. Things have changed in the industry, but not that much, which is why PD James had to pretend to be a man.

Do you think transwomen should be included for Women in Stem awards, because they are as marginalised as women?

So you are here arguing for respect and dignity for them at the detriment of women and girls.

No I am not.

Of course including men in prizes and programmes for women is sexist. How does it benefit women in any way to give up places to men? There’s no benefit to women at all

Gender critical beliefs are protected in law under the Equality Act as a belief worthy of respect in a democratic society.

Come back to this thread after a while and find out that meowie is now a hateful transphobe terf 😅

No I am not.

You are. If I can't specify the biological sex of a male, how can I ask for that male to be excluded from my female space?

You can use any word that you like, but not including TW in womens sport because they are male is the same sentiment as this statement you said was transphobic:

subset of males, even if they 'identify' (whatever the fuck that means) as women

Is it the use of language you have a problem with and not separate women only spaces?

If we stated that females need space away from males, would you see that as transphobic? Is it the questioning TW identity as 'woman' thats transphobic?

If thats the case, what is a woman? What is it about woman that these men are identifying as? Its not sex, its not gender identity, its not clothes, its not a physical body.

Can you appreciate that some males are trying to get into women's spaces, and no one is able to articulate why they should?

And I would call that gaslighting. I've definitely seen that very term and others like it.