Are mumsneters TERFs

[ChedderGorgeous]

I started a thread on the new taskmaster line up here. This greatly angered a taskmaster fb group who screenshot the conversation and agreed all mumsnetters were TERFs. AIBU to suggest this isn't the general perception of others when you have mentioned mumsnet ? Ps. I still haven't heard of John Robins !

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree, although I doubt you can!

Do try. It seems like you think being male is incompatible with being a woman?

Nah, you explain yourself first if you want an answer.

Can you articulate why women should accept the word of a male person who declares that they are a woman?

Do you understand that no human can understand what it means in material reality to be the opposite sex? Rather that a human of one sex can only hold the concept of what it means to be the opposite sex and emulate that concept?

So, can you please tell us how a male person 'identifies' as being something that they materially are not and why any person should accept this as material reality? What other things that humans are not do we have to accept as being material reality on that person's insistence when they are what they identify as when they are not that which they identify? Age? No. Height? No. What other things can you think of that we do this for?

I’m not disagreeing with you, this is the thing. You’re disagreeing with yourself. You’re trying to show you’re not a TERF then coming out with the most TERFY views going.

Can I ask your opinion on hormones and surgery on people under the age of 18 in terms of transitioning?

It is funny, and as it happens on every one of these threads it just gets funnier each time!

Seriously, put any of your last 5 posts on twitter or reddit and you will be immediately called a hateful terf and probably get rape and death threats. You've broken no debate and suggested in some instances like competition in sports biology counts. So you are a heretic and advocating literal genocide.
That is all gc women have said. Noone has ever suggested people shouldn't dress how they like or call themselves by a name. Just that they still retain biological advantages and social male privilidge. Basic tenets of feminism.

Nah I guess we’ll never know what you want

I'd disagree with this. I know very few women in real life that aren't Gender critical.

A transwoman needs to tell you that as it is their lived experience. What I'm arguing for is respect and dignity for them.

Well this is a load of , pardon the pun, bollocks, BUT at least you are acknowledging biological reality!!!

Physical transition itself is terfy because it's based in the belief that there is something about being a woman/man that necessitates having a certain type of body.

Seriously, put any of your last 5 posts on twitter or reddit and you will be immediately called a hateful terf and probably get rape and death threats.

Of course. It’s an easy pro women crowd here who mostly say yes to third spaces and single sex spaces / sports

At the expense of women.
At the expense of all women shortlists or awards. Or sports. Or victims of abuse or some religions or just women wanting some privacy and dignity in the toilets.

But wait, you do agree about those... there's that terf inside coming out again!

A transwoman needs to tell you that as it is their lived experience.

No, it's what they have decided they feel. They cannot know that they feel more like a woman than a man because they have no idea.

Also, just forgetting to put the space in "transwomen" is a heinous sin with many TRAs. Only today has it been recounted in an employment tribunal how an employee was pulled up on it.

A transwoman needs to tell you that as it is their lived experience.

AAAAARGH

I’m out. Any discussion (on anything!) is over when people start talking about ‘lived experience’

@meowie the "respect and dignity" you expect from women is for them to pretend they believe male people are female. Why should they? One good reason?

Even if it bypasses the lived experience of natal women and their respect and dignity? A TWs view is of what they think it is to be a woman not of what it actually means to be one. Outside of gender, if someone decides their life was one of someone else’s lived experience, there wouldn’t be people jumping to validate them would there.

I find so much transphobic crap from people on MN when it comes to their TERF/GC views and it’s usually something I’m totally against as I do believe TWAW, I have some friends who are trans and I really can only see them as the gender they identify with and love them for who they are. I’m not uncomfortable with TW being in my space.

HOWEVER @RobertaFirmino I understand and appreciate your view point and it makes total sense. This is 100% valid and I agree with you that everyone should be allowed a space where they feel safe. It’s great when you hear a semi-opposing argument and come to agreement. I really hope a lot of people read this and realise THIS is totally understandable from both sides x

As long as they get to refer to transwomen as 'chicks with dicks' living a fantasy etc etc.

One of the differences between me and TERFs (as self-identified here by many).

My lived experience is that I am different from any male who identifies as a trans woman, because biology.

Does the lived experience of women prisoners who have been raped by tw count? What about the schoolgirls in the USA who've been raped anally or otherwise assaulted by tw / transgirls?
What about the girls uncomfortable in lessons when the tra kids start challenging teachers about puberty, yes every yr8 lesson (I teach pshe). Or when they protest about facts about medication being on the syllabus?

What about Richie and his dignity of having a weeping stump forever and suing the nhs?

I don't see how transwomen lose respect and dignity if I don't believe they are women. I don't believe Jesus was resurrected or that Muhammad was a prophet or that Ganesha the elephant god exists. Does that mean I believe Christians or Muslims or Hindus don't deserve respect and dignity?

It's not just about single sex spaces and - sports. I'm mostly in favour of those.

But that would make you terf @meowie

I haven't caught up with the thread yet so it may have already been pointed out that your view just stated here is the GC view. Did you not realise that?

Not necessarily at the expense of women.

And, say, all women shortlists for a book award - I see no reason whatsoever why transwomen cannot be included, and I'm glad they are!