Are mumsneters TERFs

[ChedderGorgeous]

I started a thread on the new taskmaster line up here. This greatly angered a taskmaster fb group who screenshot the conversation and agreed all mumsnetters were TERFs. AIBU to suggest this isn't the general perception of others when you have mentioned mumsnet ? Ps. I still haven't heard of John Robins !

Me too! We appear to share roughly the same views. I am happy to have third spaces. But I am transphobic and she is not.

I think it’s a good way to go

There could be third spaces, I’d add no compelled speech, no school based gender ideology and plain English language for biological facts and it’d be a good starting point imo

I’m not sure trans people do want third spaces though, I mean it’s not that it shouldn’t happen but you might find backlash to it

The point is that if other women have said that they need their spaces to remain male person free, then logic dictates that all female single sex spaces should be just that. Just because you feel that some special male people can enter the space, it makes that space then mixed sex and it then excludes the people it was designated to protect the needs off.

Do you feel that women should be self excluding from female single sex spaces that they need to participate in public life because you think that a sub group of male people should have access instead? Or do you support single sex spaces when other female people say they need them?

It isn't a trick question. You either acknowledge that other female people have needs that should be protected under laws and under policy, or you ignore those female people's needs to prioritise male people. Which do you prioritise when there is no 'inclusive' option?

A lot of TRAs (and I have already admitted I was one) are one lightbulb moment away from terfdom. The sex only spaces argument was one I myself used to make, but once I realised that you are not towing the line by daring putting conditions on your acceptance of gender, it all comes crashing down really.

Few people publicly supported the idea of isla bryson in a womans prison. I dare say even the taskmaster facebook group didnt .

There's a bit of transphobia in all of us.

think you will find that the majority of the UK population don't believe that male people can become women to the extent that male people should access female single sex spaces at all or sport. In other words, they really don't believe that male people can become female people.

I am very happy to show you polling data that shows this. Do you honestly think that the minority of the UK population believe that people can change sex? Do YOU believe that people can change sex? How? Please tell us how they can.

This.

I think it’s very common, people think ‘TERF’s have these appalling ideas and don’t realise that we couldn’t give a fuck how men present or how long their hair is. Be gender conforming men! More power to your elbow.

but it doesn’t make them women and sometimes women need single sex spaces. At such times then TW are not welcome - because they’re men

No it doesn't.

I'm sorry, it does go and post it on Reddit, and see the response you get. Unbelievable.

Oh my dear sweet summer child. Yes it does. You want proof? Put ‘I believe there should be sex based spaces and third spaces for trans people’ on a more open social media forum like Twitter. See how long you last as a not-transphobe.

The only discourse I've ever heard of Mumsnet outside of Mumsnet itself is that it is indeed, full of TERFs. That's the reputation the website has.

Honestly I think that reputation is well deserved. I find Mumsnet useful for some things but avoid any discourse of trans issues because some of it is awful.

Reads like fact to me.

TW aren’t women and never will be

We exactly cross posted @SpeedyDrama

Such as?

Head over to the feminism board and have a read xxx

I’d add no compelled speech, no school based gender ideology and plain English language for biological facts and it’d be a good starting point imo

You see, this is where we differ, as well as in the blatant disrespect many posters are showing towards trans people in the offensive language they use.

Re third spaces and arguments with the trans community - you do realise that people with pro-trans views can have differing opinions too?

I think the problem on both sides is that people become so partisan they refuse to see any part of the other side's argument.

You do know that feminists have been proposing this for years and it has been rejected by the extreme trans activists?

And by extreme trans activists, I mean the trans activists that demand that male people are treated as a female people in every instance, or even in most instances (such as sports and single sex spaces). I don't mean trans people who campaign to overcome negative discrimination that is not legal under the Equality Act such as wrongful discrimination for housing, or being overlooked for a job due to being trans.

Every person has the right to compaign for their needs, by extreme I mean those who demand that they are prioritised when there is a conflict in protected characteristics - ie. male people being treated as female in sports.

That's the reputation the website has.

In your filter bubble.

Women wanting single sex spaces and the right to be seen as a sex class distinct from ALL males is awful?

Do you really hate women so much?

Sign me up please although it looks like the queue is getting quite long 🤣 . Like most on here I know ( not just believe ) you can’t change sex . And that men do not belong in women only spaces . End of !

I am on Twitter and I have over 15 k followers. If I said this, I would get death threats. Even Martina Navratilova is told she doesn't know anything about women's sports.

I think the problem on both sides is that people become so partisan they refuse to see any part of the other side's argument.

Oh, at last a grudging concession that trans activists are sometimes in the wrong too!

Head over to the feminism board and have a read xxx
Oh don't worry, there's a lot of very regular posters from there on here now and some even trying badly to gaslight 😁

Re third spaces and arguments with the trans community - you do realise that people with pro-trans views can have differing opinions too?

Of course. If you want third spaces I’ll agree on that

Now who’s going to convince trans people who are a no?

Are you a trans person btw? As they might ask a similar question ie ‘why should you decide for us on third spaces’

How are they gaslighting? Do you know what gaslighting means? You've mentioned it quite a few times.

Not grudging at all.

Pity you don't seem to be able to make the same admission.